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[deletedelete]

xiao jie, i would much rather have a nurse change my adult diaper some day than my own children. that's a decision i bring for myself and it's not up to them if i can help it and it's me calling it a burden.

seems to me being somebody's child in chinese culture equals to being their servant? correct me if i'm wrong. but be it as it may, you are right, our cultures are very different. and being how different yours is from the one here, that's one more reason why elderly chinese immigrants must feel alienated here in the west.

[Shen Li]

xiao jie, i would much rather have a nurse change my adult diaper some day than my own children. that's a decision i bring for myself and it's not up to them unless i can't help it and it's me calling it a burden.

seems to me being somebody's child in chinese culture equals to being their servant? correct me if i'm wrong. but be it as it may, you are right, our cultures are very different. and being how different yours is from the one here, that's the reason more for elderly chinese immigrants to feel alienated here in the west.

Again, imposing your cultural biases. You are just not listening, most(if not nearly all) elderly Chinese would not want to live alone and have a total stranger change their diapers over being surrounded by loved ones who care for you out of LOVE and not financial compensation. I`d rather be dead than have such a lonely existence. No surprise so many elderly Westerners feel soo lonely/alienated and have such poor quality lives. Elderly Chinese living alone without family will feel much more alienated than those living with family that loves them. As I said in our culture we don`t consider our elderly parents a burden the way you Westerners do. Again, this is one aspect of Western culture I find pure evil.

[soon]

Whatever happened to the hard-working Chinese immigrants of a generation ago who came here and toiled away in laundries and restaurants so that their kids could become our doctors and engineers?

hmm, i wonder how true this (answering) comment is?

That was the older generation from working class Hong Kong and Canton Province. These new potential Chinese immigrants are the spoiled children of high government officials. Their main talent is that they have connections with other Chinese government officials or their children. In China today it is all about 'guanxi', connections. They are part of the 'ME generation.' They have no loyalties towards others--well some towards the motherland-- but will never have any towards Canada. To them we are just yamenren, barbarians to be taken advantage of. They would not be an asset or contribute to our society.

[dick yamada]

This talk about what sort of person is best suited to changing one's adult diaper leaves unanswered the crucial question: what is your life worth when this issue arises? Answer - less than a plugged nickel. When you need diapers, that's nature's way of nudging you toward the the exit signs. It's the writing on the wall. A nudge ought to be sufficient.

[mimi]

excellent point. but that's not the end of it. the quality of life of those people who come here at the age of 75 or even over 60 is very poor unless they can speak english and are somewhat familiar with the culture. if they come just FOB without any ability to understand the language of their new country and all they are brought here to do is really just look after their children children for no compensation short of food and shelter, all in order to help their children save more money - as noble as that is of those parents, it gives them extremely poor quality of life, especially if they can't afford to travel back in the old country at least once a year for several months to "recover" (i.e. spend some quality time with their friends and other family and get back to the old style of life they lived all their lives).. i've heard a lot about that from a friend who works in a non-profit that helps immigrant families and apparently there's a lot of parent and elders abuse in those families.

I can tell both you and JB are totally ignorant of Chinese culture which is why you both make such broad inaccurate generalizations. Elderly Chinese(unlike elderly Westerners) are revered. They come here of their own free will so they can be surrounded by loved ones rather than living alone back home. I think elderly lonely Westerners who live in a home with paid strangers changing their adult diapers are the ones with a poor quality of life. The West could learn a lot from the Chinese family system, but most are too stubborn to consider the possibility they could learn from an ancient non-white culture.

JB, if you have numbers to show that Chinese are a burden on taxpayers than show them. If they are, then force families to purchase private medical insurance. It doesn`t matter the cost to most family-oriented Chinese.

This makes me wonder, how does family leave them behind in the first place...to move to the other side of the planet. That doesn't sound anything like reverence.

[echoes]

It's not about elderly living alone or with their extended family, it's about them (elderly immigrants) are huge drain in our medical & other social security systems. I bet XJ has no idea how many elderly immigrants in BC are taking advantage of our medical system and bus system. I always thought it's funny that Mainland Chineses like to talk about how much they respect their elders, etc. but you just need to talk to people who work at BC housing and realize how many elderly immigrants are waiting for BC subsidized "senior housing".

I'm glad that Kenny had recognized this systematic abuse from this specific immigrant class and had since introduced "super visa" instead of landed immigrant status.

[Romero]

Xiao, you assume that everything is perfect in Chinese culture but you're wrong. Every culture always has some problems.

Depression among elderly Chinese-Canadian immigrants from Mainland China

The findings indicated that 23.2% of the elderly immigrants were assessed to have some depressive symptoms. When other predicting variables were adjusted, elderly immigrants with more chronic illnesses, less positive attitude towards ageing, poorer physical health, less adequate financial situation, lower level of ethnic identification as Chinese, more service barriers, lower level of life satisfaction, shorter length of residency in Canada and those who lived alone tended to have more depressive symptoms.

The findings indicate that the prevalence rate of depressive symptoms among our elderly immigrant sample is higher than the one reported in a general elderly population.

http://www.cmj.org/Periodical/paperlist.asp?id=LW7001&linkintype=pubmed

Abuse and Neglect Experienced by Aging Chinese in Canada

The traditional values of Chinese culture promote care and respect toward older adults. While it appears to be ironic to discuss issues of abuse and neglect in the Chinese culture, research findings in Chinese societies do indicate the occurrences of such problems.

The findings show that 4.5% of the participants reported experiencing at least one incident of maltreatment or neglect within the past year. The most common forms of neglect and abuse experienced by the aging Chinese include being scolded, yelled at, treated impolitely all the time, and ridiculed. Close family members such as spouses and sons are those that most commonly maltreat older Chinese. Those who were more likely to report at least one incident of maltreatment or neglect were older adults living with others; they tended to have no education, more access barriers, more chronic illnesses, less favorable mental health, and a higher level of identification with Chinese cultural values. The findings implied that the face value of respect and care received by older people in Chinese culture should not be taken for granted.

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/08946566.2011.584047

I've known of many elderly Chinese Canadians living with families and I never saw them as revered. They just lived. Existed. Nothing special. There's a reason why there are many programs and services for elderly Chinese Canadians.

[mimi]

Xiao, you assume that everything is perfect in Chinese culture but you're wrong. Every culture always has some problems.

Sweeping generalizations are almost never accurate. I think Xaio is correct when she says that there are cultural behaviours of the young respecting the old....but that's no more or less accurate than saying all Canadians are polite. =))))

[deletedelete]

This talk about what sort of person is best suited to changing one's adult diaper leaves unanswered the crucial question: what is your life worth when this issue arises? Answer - less than a plugged nickel. When you need diapers, that's nature's way of nudging you toward the the exit signs. It's the writing on the wall. A nudge ought to be sufficient.

that's one thing that we ought to do for our children and that's to not leave before our time comes. that's us giving them a heads up on how life is ending - NOt violently but peacefully and of course surrounded by our loved ones. i don't know why does xiao jie assume that westerners never see their parents when they get old. my sister visits our mom every week and spends a day at her house and she calls her every day to make sure she's ok while i call her every weekend and we talk for at least an hour at a time. if our mom had to go live in a home because she couldn't look after herself anymore, my sister would be again spending a day once a week with her and i'd be calling her every weekend, just as i am now, if not more often than that.

[deletedelete]

Sweeping generalizations are almost never accurate. I think Xaio is correct when she says that there are cultural behaviours of the young respecting the old....but that's no more or less accurate than saying all Canadians are polite. =))))

lol.. oh. what's the duce doing now:)

[GAMBINO]

decomposing

[deletedelete]

shut up, no he's not.

[Jugdish Betha]

It is all well and nice that that you revere your grandmother but that still doesn't help her pay her fair share for end of life medical costs. Culture has nothing to do with wasting money on elderly immigrants that have done nothing and will do nothing for Canadian society. In fact each of them will become a societal burder that will cost the tax payer hundreds of thousands of dollars per useless immigrant. You want to bring grandma in, you pay 100% of her medical fees. After all, why should she get something for nothing when the average Canadian born Joe Shmo gets dinked on very pay cheque to pay for Grandma's broken hip or cancer treatment. It is a lousy deal for tax payers and should be discontinued.

I find it odd that you are all for fiscal conservatism when it effects someone else yet you are fully in favour of socialism when it benefits you.

Can you spell hypocrite?

[Spartacus]

The one thing that we have to face is that Canada needs immigration to maintain and grow our population to pay for all our social services. 

Of all the immigrants we let into this country all from many different countries, I think people of Chinese decent probably rate as one of the better quality of  immigrants to our country.  They assimilate quickly and easily, they support and contribute to our values, ie they try/succeed to win Olympic metals for Canada etc, and if one considers that the number of immigrants from China is almost the same number as immigrants from India, the Chinese win hands down. 
Just take this Forum for example, we have a number of Chinese posters on here presenting their point of view, but how many do we have here from India presenting their point of view? One maybe ? When was the last time you saw an Indian national trying to win a metal for Canada?

So it might be a little unfair picking on the Chinese to use as an example of how senior immigrants should be treated when they come to Canada. Unfortunately when Canada makes polices and laws, it's a one size fits all law and is not culturally specific. 

There is a problem with senior immigrants in Canada.
Presently there are over 60% senior immigrants in Toronto, and in Vancouver senior immigrants make up over 50% of the senior population.  This number also includes refugees as well.
The total population of immigrants in Canada is about 22%.
The total senior immigrants in Canada is something like 28 -30 % ??

So, there is something going on here which the Government tries to spin as just a natural situation. Number don't add up to natural !!!

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/89-519-x/2 ... 02-eng.htm

See chart above!!

[mimi]

K....I'd just like to say....I'm not picking on the Chinese. =)

[Spartacus]

K....I'd just like to say....I'm not picking on the Chinese. =)

I think this Thread got funneled down to blaming the Chinese for this situation when in fact it's not a problem caused by Chinese. Like many others they are probably victims, but the problem really rest with our government and us as Canadians.

[Jugdish Betha]

I am specifically picking on elderly immigrants from every country that suck off the government tit. We don't need them, they are useless and cost nothing but money. I am all for bringing in anyone willing to assimilate, put their nose to the grindstone and become contributing members of society - that doesn't include costly old people.

[deletedelete]

i agree spartacus, and my comments about hardship elder immigrants face were not only about chinese immigrants they were about all elderly immigrants from non-english speaking countries.

having said that i disagree with putting down EI or any other in favor of chinese immigrants. one law for all.

[Spartacus]

I am specifically picking on elderly immigrants from every country that suck off the government tit. We don't need them, they are useless and cost nothing but money. I am all for bringing in anyone willing to assimilate, put their nose to the grindstone and become contributing members of society - that doesn't include costly old people.

I am aware of a situation of an immigrant with a wife and 3 kids who immigrated to Canada (middle easterner) and his wife did not work but looked after their children.
This couple then sponsored both of their parents to come to Canada, which they did but did had no specific skills to work in Canada.

So here we have, one wage earner, which our health care supports;
- himself
- his wife
- 3 children
- 4 grandparents
Total 9 people being supported by one wage earner!!

We cannot afford this much longer with the current high immigration levels.

[deletedelete]

I am specifically picking on elderly immigrants from every country that suck off the government tit. We don't need them, they are useless and cost nothing but money. I am all for bringing in anyone willing to assimilate, put their nose to the grindstone and become contributing members of society - that doesn't include costly old people.

i think that's a bit too black and white; sometimes younger immigrants need their parents to come and help them out and parents are willing and able to come but paying for travel insurance and airfare every time adds up really fast. in those cases it's a great help in assimilation of those immigrants to let their parents immigrate too.

[deletedelete]

I am specifically picking on elderly immigrants from every country that suck off the government tit. We don't need them, they are useless and cost nothing but money. I am all for bringing in anyone willing to assimilate, put their nose to the grindstone and become contributing members of society - that doesn't include costly old people.

I am aware of a situation of an immigrant with a wife and 3 kids who immigrated to Canada (middle easterner) and his wife did not work but looked after their children.
This couple then sponsored both of their parents to come to Canada, which they did but did had no specific skills to work in Canada.

So here we have, one wage earner, which our health care supports;
- himself
- his wife
- 3 children
- 4 grandparents
Total 9 people being supported by one wage earner!!

We cannot afford this much longer with the current high immigration levels.

those 3 children and 4 grandchildren will most probably be contributing to your pension very soon. just sayin.

[Spartacus]

I am aware of a situation of an immigrant with a wife and 3 kids who immigrated to Canada (middle easterner) and his wife did not work but looked after their children.
This couple then sponsored both of their parents to come to Canada, which they did but did had no specific skills to work in Canada.

So here we have, one wage earner, which our health care supports;
- himself
- his wife
- 3 children
- 4 grandparents
Total 9 people being supported by one wage earner!!

We cannot afford this much longer with the current high immigration levels.

those 3 children and 4 grandchildren will most probably be contributing to your pension very soon. just sayin.

Ummm, yes, but I think you mean the 3 children will be contributing to their grandparents care and their parents pension.

The Math will still be pretty stressed;
3 wage earners, supporting 4 grandparents and the pensions of 2 parents!! No??
This is in addition to looking after themselves !!

[deletedelete]

how long do you think those grandparents will live, 120 years? also i see 8 wage earners there not 3.

[Spartacus]

how long do you think those grandparents will live, 120 years?

Hahaha, well it's not uncommon for parents to be retired while grandparents are still living. But I agree, usually not all four grandparents are still alive.

The average age is now about 83 yrs old and increasing. Better health care and food is increasing life spans!! Costing everybody more!!!

[Jugdish Betha]

I am specifically picking on elderly immigrants from every country that suck off the government tit. We don't need them, they are useless and cost nothing but money. I am all for bringing in anyone willing to assimilate, put their nose to the grindstone and become contributing members of society - that doesn't include costly old people.

i think that's a bit too black and white; sometimes younger immigrants need their parents to come and help them out and parents are willing and able to come but paying for travel insurance and airfare every time adds up really fast. in those cases it's a great help in assimilation of those immigrants to let their parents immigrate too.

Sure it sounds great and indeed would be a NICE thing to do but in reality, with the government raising the retirement benefit to 67 for Canadian s that paid into the system, I believe there are other cuts to be made long before hard working Canadian retirees suffer. It is only fair. Immigrants should have a choice, Canada or Grandma - not both. Sorry, it may sound harsh but we should cut back on supplying benefits to immigrant burdens long before we steal from Canadians that have contributed to the system for decades.

Providing benefits to non-contributing foreigners before those that paid in to the system is a little like insuring a 1990 K-Car for theft - It's dumb and it is a waste of money.


peace out bitches

[Spartacus]

also i see 8 wage earners there not 3.

Hmmmm, who are the 8 ? Grandparent and parents are not working when parents retire !!

[deletedelete]

wait what do you have against k-car:)).. i agree with you in principle but those parents of immigrants are a very small percent of a dumb waste of money our govt makes..

[deletedelete]

also i see 8 wage earners there not 3.

Hmmmm, who are the 8 ? Grandparent and parents are not working when parents retire !!

alright then 7. 3+4

[Spartacus]

Hmmmm, who are the 8 ? Grandparent and parents are not working when parents retire !!

alright then 7. 3+4

No, your still wrong.
You must work for the government, your using government math to analyze a simple problem!!

[Munday]

This makes me wonder, how does family leave them behind in the first place...to move to the other side of the planet. That doesn't sound anything like reverence.[/quote]


that is because you, like the majority of westerners, (me too a long time ago) cannot relate to the Asian mind set.....in Asian culture the number one goal is the preservation and advancement of the FAMILY UNIT AND LINE...all other personal goals and asperations are secondary to that aim.....so in a typical asian family the grandparents look after the grandkids while the parents work to earn money to enhance the family status and wealth.........in turn the grandkids and parents look after the older folks when they can no longer look after themselves........out of love and respect.....yes.....but also as recognition of a life time of sacrifice to further the FAMILY wealth and status...never forget..that is the primary point of being alive and a member of the family....to increase the wealth of the next generation.....nothing else takes precedent...it has been my experience that any contract, handshake, promise, guarantee or any other kind of commitment comes secondary to a order/request from the family...all else is secondary