Good luck job hunting she says....

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Munday
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Good luck job hunting she says....

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Educated for unemployment
MARGARET WENTE | Columnist profile | E-mail
From Tuesday's Globe and Mail

Dear Class of 2012,

Congratulations! You’ve made it. After four years of postsecondary education, you now have a piece of paper suitable for framing, plus $27,889 in debt (give or take). You’ll land a job, eventually. But your paycheque may not go far, especially after the $373 you’ll be deducting every month for the next 10 years to pay back your student loans.

I hate to say this, but if your degree is in sociology, psych, art history or much else on the soft side, you are a dime a dozen. Have you heard of supply and demand? Sorry! You’re on the wrong side of the equation.

Did anybody ever tell you about the job outlook for sociology majors, or what kind of salaries they make? I thought not. Most of our universities – the “soft” side, at any rate – are proudly disconnected from the job market. Our faculties of liberal arts and humanities believe that issues such as “relevance” and “employability” are, quite frankly, crass. The purpose of a university education is to cultivate critical thinking, not to churn out robotic, compliant workers for the postindustrial capitalist state. If our universities are producing three sociology and psych graduates for every job that actually requires a working knowledge of those fields, well, that’s not their concern. Besides, look at it from the faculty’s perspective. The higher the demand for sociology (etc.) degrees, the higher the demand for sociology (etc.) professors!

Here’s some more bad news. If all you have is a measly bachelor’s degree, your resumé won’t get a second look. You are competing with people who have master’s degrees. To be successful, you will probably need a master’s too, even though the job you get won’t actually require it. Degree and credential inflation are rampant. These days, you can’t even be a gym teacher unless you have a degree in kinesiology.

Degree inflation is good for universities, which desperately need bums in seats. But it is not so good for you, because you’ll have to spend another year or two in school and acquire another chunk of debt before you can even think of embarking on what’s conventionally regarded as your adult life.

Sociology professors are always complaining that I pick on sociology too much. But really, I could pick on journalism too. Journalism schools have spread like mushrooms in May. Some of them are excellent. They also provide high-quality employment for aging journalists, including some very, very dear friends who, I hope, will think of me some day if I ever get laid off. What these schools do not provide is jobs in journalism. That’s up to the job market, which, you may have noticed, is undergoing an epic tsunami.

I do not know what fraction of journalism students actually wind up in journalism. My impression is: not many. Journalism schools should be made to collect this information and post it prominently on their websites. Of course if they did, a lot of students might choose pharmacy instead.

I’m not saying that those of you who’ve majored in journalism or sociology have wasted your time. What I’m saying is that you’ve been sold a bill of goods. You deserved to have a better notion of how your considerable investment of time and money might pay off. You do not deserve to spend half your 20s in school in order to acquire expensive credentials that neither you nor your employer require. You certainly deserve a higher-education system that puts your needs first, rather than the needs of the faculty and the administration.

Good luck with that job hunt. You’re going to need it.


This poster strongly disavows any knowledge about any subject and furthermore takes no responsibility for any comments posted under the name of Munday.
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Sharlee
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Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread post by Sharlee »

Someone has to take all those HR jobs ...


Don't believe everything you think.
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Spartacus
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Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

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This kinda goes to show you that if your going to invest in a university education, you gotta be sure you are picking a degree program where there is a demand for graduates from that program.
I fail to understand how anyone can spend time and money going to university to only get a higher level of general education but come out without any recognize skills.


ghost
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Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread post by ghost »

I dunno. One of my degrees is in psychology and I've done pretty darn good so far.


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Spartacus
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Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread post by Spartacus »

These are for basic jobs that usually don't lead anywhere, ie if you get a job as a fork lift operator in a warehouse.
I guess with a higher education you could work up to a warehouse manager after awhile.


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mimi
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Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread post by mimi »

I know a heap of people that have moved on up the ladder with nothing more than a high school diploma.....and some who are running their own successful businesses and doing extremely well, with the same basic credentials. I think many have the notion that a degree will automatically pave the way for a career.


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mimi
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Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

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RealWoman wrote:I think many have that notion because when applying for jobs, many of the REQUIRE a degree to get your foot in the door.
Of course.....and many don't. Just saying, to research first.

I would certainly hope my surgeon would take the right steps. =)))))


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Blurt
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Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread post by Blurt »

Of course, if you hold a B.A. and an M.A. in English, like Margaret Wente does, you could always toil for pennies a word as an opinionated blowhard for a national rag, like Margaret Wente does.

Just sayin'.


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Spartacus
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Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread post by Spartacus »

RealWoman wrote:
mimi wrote: Of course.....and many don't. Just saying, to research first.
I would certainly hope my surgeon would take the right steps. =)))))
The requirements to be a receptionist these days are a fricken BA! It's getting ridiculous.
I can understand that. It's probably because experience has probably shown that those with a high school education cannot properly express themselves when communicating with the public .
I think a receptionist job is a pretty important job as this is the first person you will come in contact with when you phone or visit a company. First impressions are important.

Maybe this does not say much for our high school education program.


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Blurt
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Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread post by Blurt »

What's missing, RW? Opinionated or blowhard? :tongue:


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mimi
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Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread post by mimi »

It doesn't make sense to get a mortgage to buy a six bedroom house, because you plan on having a big family, only to discover that you can't have children. =))

Research your path first.


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Blurt
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Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread post by Blurt »

mimi wrote:Research your path first.
But make allowances for spontaneity, too, n'est-ce pas?


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mimi
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Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread post by mimi »

Blurt wrote:
mimi wrote:Research your path first.
But make allowances for spontaneity, too, n'est-ce pas?
Yes. =)))


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Mad Serb
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Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread post by Mad Serb »

Education bubble


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mimi
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Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread post by mimi »

All I know for certain, is that I know more unemployed people with degrees, than I do employed people without degrees.


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mimi
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Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread post by mimi »

RealWoman wrote:
mimi wrote:All I know for certain, is that I know more unemployed people with degrees, than I do employed people without degrees.
These days, that's like saying "I know more unemployed people with high school diplomas than I do employed people without one".
Sad but true.


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Mad Serb
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Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread post by Mad Serb »

mimi wrote:All I know for certain, is that I know more unemployed people with degrees, than I do employed people without degrees.
That could be because your circle of friends consists of educated people mostly.


ghost
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Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread post by ghost »

I think it goes in all directions. I know plenty of educated people with high paying jobs. I don't know anyone with only high school who earns as much as my friends who are educated.

As Serb says, it depends on your circle of friends.


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mimi
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Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread post by mimi »

ghost wrote:I think it goes in all directions. I know plenty of educated people with high paying jobs. I don't know anyone with only high school who earns as much as my friends who are educated.

As Serb says, it depends on your circle of friends.
I think you're right....it goes in all directions....which leads me to conclude, that there's more to success than just a degree, and at the same time, there's more to 'failure' than just a lack of one, as we all seems to know people from all points on the scale. Bottom line is, that while I believe that getting an education is never a waste...it isn't a guarantee of either employment or success.


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GranpaP
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Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread post by GranpaP »

None of my degrees were worth anything.

The jobs I've had did not rely on any of them.

I get hired by showing my face and chatting with the employer.

Then again, I really don't need to work; and when I do work, it's mostly an extension of a hobby.


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Spartacus
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Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread post by Spartacus »

mimi wrote: Bottom line is, that while I believe that getting an education is never a waste...it isn't a guarantee of either employment or success.
Yep, but you gotta go with the stats on this one;

Higher education = better opportunities = better pay = higher job satisfaction = better quality of life

There will always be exceptions to the rule !!


deletedelete
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Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread post by deletedelete »

^ agreed with spartac.


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GranpaP
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Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread post by GranpaP »

Spartacus wrote:
mimi wrote: Bottom line is, that while I believe that getting an education is never a waste...it isn't a guarantee of either employment or success.
Yep, but you gotta go with the stats on this one;

Higher education = better opportunities = better pay = higher job satisfaction = better quality of life

There will always be exceptions to the rule !!
And one of the exceptions is: better pay does NOT necessarily equate to higher job satisfaction.

There is a long list of "motivators"; not all workers feel money is the top of the list.

I, for instance, have worked for peanuts in a position that I've found extremely satisfying.


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mimi
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Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread post by mimi »

Spartacus wrote:
mimi wrote: Bottom line is, that while I believe that getting an education is never a waste...it isn't a guarantee of either employment or success.
Yep, but you gotta go with the stats on this one;

Higher education = better opportunities = better pay = higher job satisfaction = better quality of life

There will always be exceptions to the rule !!
I don't agree with that at all.


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mimi
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Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread post by mimi »

By the way....what are the stats ? :eyebrow:


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Mad Serb
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Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread post by Mad Serb »

The stats are that educated people earn more, live healthier and longer.


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mimi
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Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread post by mimi »

I assumed that's what Spart was suggesting they may have said...but...where are they and who said it. =))))


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GranpaP
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Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread post by GranpaP »

Mad Serb wrote:The stats are that educated people earn more, live healthier and longer.
But not necessarily happier.

Happiness, BTW, is THE gauge by which a person's success is measured; not the amount of friends or cars in the driveway or career and family achievements. There is no point in any of it if you aren't truly happy. I can lose all I have in a second and yet, keep a smile on my face because nobody can take away what I am.


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Mad Serb
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Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread post by Mad Serb »

Cannot quote exact study, but indeed, education on average betters peoples lives. There are exceptions, of course.


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mimi
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Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread post by mimi »

Mad Serb wrote:Cannot quote exact study, but indeed, education on average betters peoples lives. There are exceptions, of course.
I couldn't deny that education betters people's lives...but education comes in many forms....and earning letters to put after our name, doesn't guarantee anything.


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