Board index Vancouver Forum

“Anyway, I keep picturing all these little kids playing some game in this big field of rye and all. Thousands of little kids, and nobody's around - nobody big, I mean - except me. And I'm standing on the edge of some crazy cliff. What I have to do, I have to catch everybody if they start to go over the cliff - I mean if they're running and they don't look where they're going I have to come out from somewhere and catch them. That's all I do all day. I'd just be the catcher in the rye and all. I know it's crazy, but that's the only thing I'd really like to be.”
― J.D. Salinger, The Catcher in the Rye

Register your free accountRead the forum rules

Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread postby mimi » 16 May 2012, 17:29

RealWoman wrote:Part of the problem is people are getting educations for the paper rather than for the want of learning relevant applicable things.

This.
User avatar
mimi
 
Posts: 26125
Joined: 26 Aug 2011, 11:54

Advertisement

Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread postby Rotwang » 16 May 2012, 17:47

RealWoman wrote:Yes because having people employed is a terrible thing. Given manufacturing jobs have been shipped overseas and continue to head east, what is left exactly? Would it be better to be at home barefoot and pregnant raising children in poverty because the current economic climate is such where a single bread winner is no longer an option? Is the only acceptable non-feminist job that of a trades person?

Come on.

Having people employed in jobs that create NOTHING is very much a dumb idea.

When our workforce is condensed down to professionals and office monkeys, where will the money to pay them come from?

Where is the production, manufacturing, commerce and retail activity that actually generates revenue?

We have, as you rightly observed, shipped it all off to China. Why? Because of corporate greed.

These same corporations will, in the near future, ask why they cannot sell their sparkly toys, or why people aren't lining up to be gouged by their interest rates, or why their waiting rooms are empty.

Because no one has a job.

But we will all have a lawyer, and around 3 public servants per private wage earner.

And lots of politicians, radical socialist groups, capitalist cowboys, university educated economists, philosophers and bar room sages will all say they have the answer to a question that need not have been asked.

We could never have afforded 100% employment. Society does not generate enough income to do that. So, we've taxed ourselves into trying to fill in the gaps.

And we can't pay anymore.

Either the number of jobs has to be reduced, or the number of available hours. It's time to pay the piper for yet another socialist train wreck.
You'll be first against the wall, come the revolution...
User avatar
Rotwang
 
Posts: 989
Joined: 06 Sep 2011, 19:26

Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread postby Hornung » 16 May 2012, 18:01

With my University Degree, I qualify for 4 of the 10 top Best Jobs. If I study hard on the Canadian Electrical Code reference book which I have on my shelf and take the exam, I qualify for the 5 of the 25 top Best Jobs.

The Best Jobs of 2012
The year's hottest jobs are hiring in droves, paying well, and providing room to grow

By Jada A. Graves
February 27, 2012
http://money.usnews.com/money/careers/a ... bs-of-2012

All of our Best Jobs of 2012 are outstanding, but the top 25 make for a particularly great career choice. We’ve ranked them, comparing their projected growth to the year 2020 to their industry’s employment rate. Also contributing to a job’s overall score is its average salary, predicted job prospects, and a quantitative assessment of job satisfaction. Read more on how we ranked the Best Jobs.
http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jo ... -best-jobs
User avatar
Hornung
 
Posts: 7422
Joined: 13 Jan 2011, 15:25

Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread postby Leopardsocks » 16 May 2012, 21:30

RealWoman wrote:Socialist train wreck eh? Are socialists the one shipping off "do" jobs?

Yeah, I didn't think so.

No.

The socialists are the ones TAKING the jobs. In other words, using western money to build up their own economies at our expense. It is the FAILURE of their socialist society that has created a huge wage vacuum that corporations are greedily exploiting, the the detriment of their customers.

And please don't infer that I am a flag bearer for capitalism. Communism and its bastard offspring are bad policy, but capitalism is not the solution.
We're so abused...we're so confused...its easy to believe someone's gonna light the fuse - Rainbow, Can't Happen Here.
User avatar
Leopardsocks
 
Posts: 9158
Joined: 16 Sep 2011, 17:16

Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread postby Leopardsocks » 16 May 2012, 21:30

Hornung wrote:With my University Degree, I qualify for 4 of the 10 top Best Jobs. If I study hard on the Canadian Electrical Code reference book which I have on my shelf and take the exam, I qualify for the 5 of the 25 top Best Jobs.

The Best Jobs of 2012
The year's hottest jobs are hiring in droves, paying well, and providing room to grow

By Jada A. Graves
February 27, 2012
http://money.usnews.com/money/careers/a ... bs-of-2012

All of our Best Jobs of 2012 are outstanding, but the top 25 make for a particularly great career choice. We’ve ranked them, comparing their projected growth to the year 2020 to their industry’s employment rate. Also contributing to a job’s overall score is its average salary, predicted job prospects, and a quantitative assessment of job satisfaction. Read more on how we ranked the Best Jobs.
http://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jo ... -best-jobs


Boy, the only degree you'd have is 98.6.
We're so abused...we're so confused...its easy to believe someone's gonna light the fuse - Rainbow, Can't Happen Here.
User avatar
Leopardsocks
 
Posts: 9158
Joined: 16 Sep 2011, 17:16

Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread postby Annie » 16 May 2012, 21:38

Makes being stuck on a disability kind of a relief. My kids have to figure out what they're gonna do. But I think they'll be fine.
User avatar
Annie
 
Posts: 10203
Joined: 01 Jul 2010, 23:46
Location: Lower Mainland

Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread postby ghost » 16 May 2012, 21:57

Rotwang wrote:So, you expended 4 years of effort studying for a degree that has no connection to your employment (with no disrespect to your actual vocation).

Isn't this the point?

The education system was subverted by feminism, which declared that women should be afforded the same life opportunities as men.

Noble ideal, as most socialist ideals are.

But, feminists didn't want life opportunities that included breaking your nails, or getting grease and dirt on your Chanel's. No. Women wanted to be educated into the higher learning vocations. Let men disassemble engines, or lay bricks, or fix your plumbing. Women can be psychologists (the world needs more psychologists), welfare workers, graphic designers, doctors, dentists, lawyers (the world needs lots of lawyers) and last but by no means least....public servants. Women love public service. They actually think they are making a difference.

So, we end up with an over educated, dysfunctional society, where families are expendable on the alter of materialism, where tradespeople are harder and harder to find, and the economic gap widens every day.

So, tell me, girls.

Is this the world you wanted?

Will you leave it a better place than you found it?


I'm pretty happy with this world. I earn more money than any man I know.

And I have six years of education. Two degrees and a MA. The psychology degree isn't a requirement for my line of work but the other degrees are. Others will argue that you don't need an education for my line of work but it certainly helps. The biggest and most successful people in my field all hold degrees.

I also know a woman carpenter, a female pipe fitter and a lady plumber. My brother married a girl who worked with rebar.

I've also worked several jobs in my life that were mostly male jobs.

So don't give me this crap that females don't like to get their hands dirty.
User avatar
ghost
 
Posts: 3349
Joined: 15 Oct 2008, 20:30

Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread postby ghost » 16 May 2012, 22:01

RealWoman wrote:Generally speaking, women are a minority in building trades.


Yes, but it doesn't mean they don't or aren't capable of doing it.
User avatar
ghost
 
Posts: 3349
Joined: 15 Oct 2008, 20:30

Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread postby ghost » 16 May 2012, 22:21

GAMBINO wrote:

I bet i fucken earn more money than.....nevermind

You pay the motel bill then

and room service ;)


and just what are you planning on contributing to this little tryst?
User avatar
ghost
 
Posts: 3349
Joined: 15 Oct 2008, 20:30

Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread postby ghost » 16 May 2012, 22:24

RealWoman wrote:
ghost wrote:
Yes, but it doesn't mean they don't or aren't capable of doing it.

Of course not but as a generalized statement, it isn't that far off.


And there are plenty of fields that women dominate too.

That's not the point of my argument. It was stated that women don't like to get their hands dirty and only go into certain fields. I'm pointing out that it's not always true.

Men and women are different. I get tired of hearing people try and say they're the same. People are different. We're individuals. We need to stop comparing apples to oranges because it's a useless argument.
User avatar
ghost
 
Posts: 3349
Joined: 15 Oct 2008, 20:30

Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread postby Berry Sweet » 16 May 2012, 22:29

I can just feel the love in the room.......
I wonder if I've been changed in the night? Let me think. Was I the same when I got up this morning? I almost think I can remember feeling a little different. But if I'm not the same, the next question is 'Who in the world am I?' Ah, that's the great puzzle!
~Alice
User avatar
Berry Sweet
 
Posts: 28260
Joined: 08 Oct 2008, 20:31

Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread postby ghost » 16 May 2012, 22:34

GAMBINO wrote:
ghost wrote:
and just what are you planning on contributing to this little tryst?



Now thats a surprise ;)

Youll just have to wait and see :tongue:


Is this that 'open your mouth and close your eyes' thing cause I'm not falling for that again.
User avatar
ghost
 
Posts: 3349
Joined: 15 Oct 2008, 20:30

Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread postby Berry Sweet » 16 May 2012, 22:39

RealWoman wrote:Have you been toking up again Berry?

What makes you think that?
I wonder if I've been changed in the night? Let me think. Was I the same when I got up this morning? I almost think I can remember feeling a little different. But if I'm not the same, the next question is 'Who in the world am I?' Ah, that's the great puzzle!
~Alice
User avatar
Berry Sweet
 
Posts: 28260
Joined: 08 Oct 2008, 20:31

Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread postby ghost » 16 May 2012, 22:39

GAMBINO wrote:
ghost wrote:
Is this that 'open your mouth and close your eyes' thing cause I'm not falling for that again.



Its ok u can trust me :thumbup:


Yeah, sure I can.
User avatar
ghost
 
Posts: 3349
Joined: 15 Oct 2008, 20:30

Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread postby Rotwang » 16 May 2012, 23:31

ghost wrote:
I'm pretty happy with this world. I earn more money than any man I know.

And I have six years of education. Two degrees and a MA. The psychology degree isn't a requirement for my line of work but the other degrees are. Others will argue that you don't need an education for my line of work but it certainly helps. The biggest and most successful people in my field all hold degrees.

I also know a woman carpenter, a female pipe fitter and a lady plumber. My brother married a girl who worked with rebar.

I've also worked several jobs in my life that were mostly male jobs.

So don't give me this crap that females don't like to get their hands dirty.


Talking of crap...are you implying that women are equally represented in jobs where hands are soiled?

Seriously?

If they occupy more than ONE SINGLE PERCENT of skilled labour positions, I will be astonished.

Every time women are challenged about the adversity to manual labour, someone says "But I know someone who is...........".

So, OK. Lets agree they are capable.

Why, then, do they not wish to do this jobs, and aim for nice, clean, educated jobs?
You'll be first against the wall, come the revolution...
User avatar
Rotwang
 
Posts: 989
Joined: 06 Sep 2011, 19:26

Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread postby deletedelete » 16 May 2012, 23:36

Is this the world you wanted?


yes. but it's not 'finished' yet, it needs to be more equal.

why is holding skilled labour position such a big deal and being a dentist or a lawyer isn't?
if i love you, what business is it of yours?
deletedelete
 
Posts: 6447
Joined: 12 Oct 2011, 00:48

Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread postby Rotwang » 17 May 2012, 02:48

deletedelete wrote:
Is this the world you wanted?


yes. but it's not 'finished' yet, it needs to be more equal.

why is holding skilled labour position such a big deal and being a dentist or a lawyer isn't?


When you say "more equal", what you really mean is that we give women even MORE advantage and hands up than they have now.

After all...where is there any inequality now? Think very carefully before answering.

As to your question, I would expect that from an idiot, not necessarily a sexist.

The question is invalid. Holding any form of vocation is not a "big deal". Explain then, why women avoid the hard and dirty jobs, while expecting a fast track into higher paying jobs through a clearly biased education system.

Women are equally capable, as I've already accepted with Ghost's post. So why aren't they laying bricks, plumbing pipes, digging trenches.

Oh, wait...silly me...thats man's work.
You'll be first against the wall, come the revolution...
User avatar
Rotwang
 
Posts: 989
Joined: 06 Sep 2011, 19:26

Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread postby mimi » 17 May 2012, 04:34

K wait. What's with the 'we give' women more advantage ? Who is 'we' ? And why is it assumed it's theirs to give ? =)))

And for the record...as for laying bricks, plumbing pipes, digging trenches....I've done all of those things. =) :tongue:
User avatar
mimi
 
Posts: 26125
Joined: 26 Aug 2011, 11:54

Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread postby Sharlee » 17 May 2012, 05:36

I'll probably be shot down for offering generalizations that aren't universally true, but I can't help but wade into the discussion.

Rotwang wrote:Women are equally capable, as I've already accepted with Ghost's post. So why aren't they laying bricks, plumbing pipes, digging trenches.

Oh, wait...silly me...thats man's work.


Studies have shown that on the whole, women are more verbal than men, which suggests that they're more social. I don't think anyone would disagree that the average man has more strength and physical stamina than the average woman. I'd guess that most people, when choosing a career, select one that will employ their natural skills. I could probably figure out how to do a lot of skilled trades, but I'd miss the social element that comes from my job and quite frankly, I seriously doubt my back would hold up under continuous manual labour. I'm simply not physically built for it and not motivated to try.

Because I wanted to have a family, I also chose careers (I'm on my second) that would allow me to work while pregnant (it's hard to work as a gas fitter when you can't crawl and have to pee every 30 minutes) and have flexibility to raise my children and be reachable 24/7. I also thought it important that I be alive to rear my kids, so fishing for Alaskan crab didn't make the short list either. I based my career choices on a broad picture of what I wanted my life to look like and skilled trades just didn't cut it.

Generally speaking, men seem to enjoy working with systems and infrastructure and women with people. I'll leave the building of roads to those who find it stimulating to craft them and will appreciate their work as I use the roads to get to the people on the other end. It's what makes me happy and I'm not apologetic that I've chosen careers that I find stimulating and rewarding. I didn't make those choices because I'm a woman, but because I like to be happy. I think most people are the same.
Don't believe everything you think.
User avatar
Sharlee
 
Posts: 6015
Joined: 21 Jul 2010, 14:24
Location: Greater Vancouver

Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread postby mimi » 17 May 2012, 05:38

I also thought it important that I be alive to rear my kids, so fishing for Alaskan crab didn't make the short list either.


:D Love it ! :D
User avatar
mimi
 
Posts: 26125
Joined: 26 Aug 2011, 11:54

Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread postby Zero Cool » 17 May 2012, 07:58

ghost wrote:
RealWoman wrote:Generally speaking, women are a minority in building trades.


Yes, but it doesn't mean they don't or aren't capable of doing it.


Betty is 'one of the guys.'

http://www.bcit.ca/stories/betty.shtml

Image

Tough to survive as a feminine female if you get what I'm trying to say, I'm yet to see it. Women in trades are growing though so perhaps I'll see it someday.
User avatar
Zero Cool
 
Posts: 6797
Joined: 07 Nov 2009, 09:20
Location: 1700 GMT

Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread postby mimi » 17 May 2012, 07:59

:mad:
User avatar
mimi
 
Posts: 26125
Joined: 26 Aug 2011, 11:54

Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread postby Zero Cool » 17 May 2012, 08:11

Sharlee wrote:I'll probably be shot down for offering generalizations that aren't universally true, but I can't help but wade into the discussion.

Rotwang wrote:Women are equally capable, as I've already accepted with Ghost's post. So why aren't they laying bricks, plumbing pipes, digging trenches.

Oh, wait...silly me...thats man's work.


Studies have shown that on the whole, women are more verbal than men, which suggests that they're more social. I don't think anyone would disagree that the average man has more strength and physical stamina than the average woman. I'd guess that most people, when choosing a career, select one that will employ their natural skills. I could probably figure out how to do a lot of skilled trades, but I'd miss the social element that comes from my job and quite frankly, I seriously doubt my back would hold up under continuous manual labour. I'm simply not physically built for it and not motivated to try.

Because I wanted to have a family, I also chose careers (I'm on my second) that would allow me to work while pregnant (it's hard to work as a gas fitter when you can't crawl and have to pee every 30 minutes) and have flexibility to raise my children and be reachable 24/7. I also thought it important that I be alive to rear my kids, so fishing for Alaskan crab didn't make the short list either. I based my career choices on a broad picture of what I wanted my life to look like and skilled trades just didn't cut it.

Generally speaking, men seem to enjoy working with systems and infrastructure and women with people. I'll leave the building of roads to those who find it stimulating to craft them and will appreciate their work as I use the roads to get to the people on the other end. It's what makes me happy and I'm not apologetic that I've chosen careers that I find stimulating and rewarding. I didn't make those choices because I'm a woman, but because I like to be happy. I think most people are the same.


I think it's more a case of women not adapting to, "Ah the dumb cuntfuckers, they smludgeoned it again. Pass me that watchamathingy, we'll beat the cocksucker out. Hey check out miss july on the underside of my toolbox lid." Not to mention things like bringing feelings [plural] to work as opposed to mens feeling [singular, only room for one] and personal issues; two guys get in an argument and a well timed "fuck off" ends it, friends again tomorrow or they simply just don't speak - but they can still work together in angry silence. Women have a much higher frequency of letting it simmer and having ongoing personal issues. In HS I remember walking down the hall with female friends, "Oh hi! how are you, errr, stupid bitch I hate you." Men aren't sophisticated enough for that, just pigs with our workplace sexist jokes would have Heather McNaughton's panties tied so tight her legs would turn blue.

As an employer I would worry far more about personal issues, handling of male dominated workforces and other such issues than work skills. No reason they can't do the physical or skills aspects of it, their are male electricians that are 5'2" & 130 lbs that get by just fine and nothing anywhere says they can handle the skullwork any less.
User avatar
Zero Cool
 
Posts: 6797
Joined: 07 Nov 2009, 09:20
Location: 1700 GMT

Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread postby Renee » 17 May 2012, 10:09

RealWoman wrote:
Rotwang wrote:When you say "more equal", what you really mean is that we give women even MORE advantage and hands up than they have now.
After all...where is there any inequality now? Think very carefully before answering.

I wonder if you have ever entertained the thought that perhaps more women go on to obtain a post secondary education as a result of gender bias in the workplace.


Oh come on RW; you know as well as I that the only "thought" that flappy assed, old bag of wind is "entertaining" is whether or not he made the right choice between Lime Jell-O and apple sauce for dinner. :eyebrow:
Built for comfort.
User avatar
Renee
 
Posts: 4337
Joined: 28 Dec 2010, 07:44

Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread postby Berry Sweet » 17 May 2012, 10:16

Berry Sweet wrote:
RealWoman wrote:Have you been toking up again Berry?

What makes you think that?

You didn't answer my question
I wonder if I've been changed in the night? Let me think. Was I the same when I got up this morning? I almost think I can remember feeling a little different. But if I'm not the same, the next question is 'Who in the world am I?' Ah, that's the great puzzle!
~Alice
User avatar
Berry Sweet
 
Posts: 28260
Joined: 08 Oct 2008, 20:31

Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread postby Berry Sweet » 17 May 2012, 10:16

Tops ya skids...but i still like my questions answered!
I wonder if I've been changed in the night? Let me think. Was I the same when I got up this morning? I almost think I can remember feeling a little different. But if I'm not the same, the next question is 'Who in the world am I?' Ah, that's the great puzzle!
~Alice
User avatar
Berry Sweet
 
Posts: 28260
Joined: 08 Oct 2008, 20:31

Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread postby Renee » 17 May 2012, 10:34

RealWoman wrote:
Renee wrote:Oh come on RW; you know as well as I that the only "thought" that flappy assed, old bag of wind is "entertaining" is whether or not he made the right choice between Lime Jell-O and apple sauce for dinner. :eyebrow:

I'd give him a bit more credit than that Renee, although I do appreciate you taking advantage of an opportunity to insult using your sharp sense of humour :)


Okay have it your way, maybe he is also thinking about if he remembered to lock the hand break on his walker.

Be serious RW; asking Ratcock to equate any kind of education for women as a means to get ahead in the workplace is a waste of time.

The last time that pile of ancient dust had anything to do with a real live woman; she was probably cooking dinner on one of those newfangled electric stoves while vacuuming the rumpus room with her new Electrolux that she got as a Christmas present. :rolleyes:
Built for comfort.
User avatar
Renee
 
Posts: 4337
Joined: 28 Dec 2010, 07:44

Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread postby mimi » 17 May 2012, 10:48

Renee wrote:
RealWoman wrote:I'd give him a bit more credit than that Renee, although I do appreciate you taking advantage of an opportunity to insult using your sharp sense of humour :)


Okay have it your way, maybe he is also thinking about if he remembered to lock the hand break on his walker.

Be serious RW; asking Ratcock to equate any kind of education for women as a means to get ahead in the workplace is a waste of time.

The last time that pile of ancient dust had anything to do with a real live woman; she was probably cooking dinner on one of those newfangled electric stoves while vacuuming the rumpus room with her new Electrolux that she got as a Christmas present. :rolleyes:


You forgot 'Pledging' the wood paneling. =)))
User avatar
mimi
 
Posts: 26125
Joined: 26 Aug 2011, 11:54

Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread postby Rotwang » 17 May 2012, 16:04

So far, if I understand your caterwauling correctly, the status quo is OK because Mimi can lay bricks, women socialize better and take offense at prurient images and bad language, women have babies, and there is a range of barriers (which are utter bullshit)preventing women entering trades. Oh, and that blathering, blubber-filled behemoth Renee can't seem to get past ageist slurs that might have been funny the first time I heard them...10 years ago.

Wipe the chicken grease and pizza debris off your keyboard, Rotunda. You might see a whole lot of other keys that will open up some original thinking. Words like "salad" and "fruit" might manifest themselves.

What I haven't seen is any rational, reasoned and acceptable justification for the clear and obvious bias in the education system that is failing our communities, both men and women.

And remember, ladies, every social malfunction has a ripple effect. A very substantial ripple effect.

Like a tennis ball hitting Renee's bloated stomach.
You'll be first against the wall, come the revolution...
User avatar
Rotwang
 
Posts: 989
Joined: 06 Sep 2011, 19:26

Re: Good luck job hunting she says....

Unread postby Renee » 18 May 2012, 11:49

Ratcock wrote:So far, if I understand your caterwauling correctly, the status quo is OK because Mimi can lay bricks, women socialize better and take offense at prurient images and bad language, women have babies, and there is a range of barriers (which are utter bullshit)preventing women entering trades. Oh, and that blathering, blubber-filled behemoth Renee can't seem to get past ageist slurs that might have been funny the first time I heard them...10 years ago.


I'm pretty certain you heard them A LOT longer ago than that.

Ratcock wrote:Wipe the chicken grease and pizza debris off your keyboard, Rotunda. You might see a whole lot of other keys that will open up some original thinking. Words like "salad" and "fruit" might manifest themselves.


Talk about not being able to get past used up old slurs. :rolleyes: I wonder if you have a single clue regarding how stupid you sound? :D

Ratcock wrote:What I haven't seen is any rational, reasoned and acceptable justification for the clear and obvious bias in the education system that is failing our communities, both men and women.


Go back and re-read the thread dumbass. More than a few good explanations were actually given in well thought out and easy to read posts. Maybe you just missed them or maybe you are too stupid to understand them or MAYBE……. you just need those cataracts removed.

Ratcock wrote:And remember, ladies, every social malfunction has a ripple effect. A very substantial ripple effect.

Like a tennis ball hitting Renee's bloated stomach.


Once again is this all you got? Okay let’s go with it. The "ripple effect" from my “bloated” stomach probably pales in comparison to the flapping your old wrinkled turkey neck does when it gets caught in the wind.
Built for comfort.
User avatar
Renee
 
Posts: 4337
Joined: 28 Dec 2010, 07:44

PreviousNext

Return to Vancouver Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot], J0E, Majestic-12 [Bot], Munday and 23 guests