..Guns Guns & More Guns

[Mel Gibson]

The solution then would be to run quality 9mm +P ammo. Cor-Bon makes a 9mm +P that generates quite a bit of energy, and I would think that most modern, quality pistols could easily handle the extra pressure. If the standard issue Glocks issued to cops can handle a steady diet of it, then so should the rest.

[Blue Frost]

Corbon is a bit expensive, you can shoot other bigger caliber guns much cheaper will just ball ammo.
Practice is the key, be it the lowly .22 you can kill someone with a good shot.

[Mel Gibson]

Corbon is a bit expensive, you can shoot other bigger caliber guns much cheaper will just ball ammo.
Practice is the key, be it the lowly .22 you can kill someone with a good shot.

You'd only really need to shoot enough of the expensive Cor-Bon stuff to ensure it cycles properly though... Practice can be done with cheap 9mm ball ammo!

[Blue Frost]

Ill just get my shotgun out, not much aiming required.
A portable claymore will do the trick.

[Odinson]

No matter what you say the .45 ACP is still a more effective round simply by virtue of it's mass.

So a 5.56 round is ineffective because of its lack of mass? You need a physics lesson, my rotund friend!

5,56x45mm is doo-doo.

Even Renee knows that AK47 is a superior assault-rifle... 7,62x39mm.

[Mel Gibson]

5,56x45mm is doo-doo.

Even Renee knows that AK47 is a superior assault-rifle... 7,62x39mm.

Odie, 5.56 will even penetrate Renee's fat ass with much destruction, so the round is no joke!

[Blue Frost]

Twice the size, more distance, but not accurate, that's superior to what something not as big, and can't shoot as far.
Well Ill shot your eye our at 350 yards while you try to hit me with the superior AK.

Lets put a more even match in calibers, the 308 round against that tumble bug.
NO ? Well size, and range is the superior right.

[Renee]

Your country had slaves too. Except for the most part, they were indigenous people and you are paying for it still today...We've been over this before my liver damaged friend.

We didn't have slaves here. Our workers came willingly to toil under harsh conditions for low pay...

And the Injuns? We never enslaved them... We tried to integrate them, but it didn't work, so now we try to keep 'em confined and placated on their Injun Reserves.

Obviously you were absent during your history lessons. But then again, you have thrown so many brain cells into the toilet by overindulgence in cheap booze that it just be a simple matter of loss of memory.

https://humanrights.ca/story/the-story- ... an-history

You did indeed have slaves up north...AND it was common place in the French territory....You enslaved your native people quite regularly.

[Renee]

Also the MYTH of requiring 15 rounds in a handgun has no real world credibility beyond a battlefield scenario and even then a handgun is going to be the last choice of weapon just before a knife or a sharp stick.

Statistics show that most self defense shootings start and end with less that 4 rounds fired. The need for high cap mags generally only takes place in competition games such as IPSC which is far and away from real world shooting. The idea that you need more than 8 or 10 rounds in any given situation where the use of a handgun is necessary, is a concept fit for yahoos only and people who have no confidence in their shooting abilities. Blasting away, throwing mass quantities of lead downrange does not a competent pistolero make.

Also, most new semiautomatic handguns are limited to 10 round mags because more and more states are banning hi-cap mags. But for you spray and pray types that want a hi-cap .45 ACP or a .40 S&W, they're out there. Glock ...STI and FNX all make one.

While I agree that most civilian defense-type shootings require few rounds, or even none as simply producing a firearm can often end trouble, I'm not limiting the discussion to that scenario...

I have studied law enforcement shootouts, and while I won't disagree that some officers need better training, I can state with certainty that in some scenarios you'll want high capacity mags. I'd personally feel more confident engaging with heavily armed bank robbers equipped with 17 rounds of 9mm, but if you're confident with your 7 round 1911 in that situation, then have at it!

If you are engaging heavily armed criminals such as bank robbers,, your sidearm is a secondary weapon. I would still be more comfortable with a 230gr .45 ACP or a 165gr .40 S&W. In order to stop an armed assistant you have to place the bullet where it will do the most damage. I simply have more faith to do so with my 8 or 10 rounds of .45 ACP from 1911 or .40 S&W from my custom Browning.

Tell me Mel, how much combat simulation shooting have you done?...I'm guess none, so regardless of what you have studied, your actual performance is a big fat unknown. For all you know, you might be better off with a hand full of rocks and since 9 times out of 10 your are under the influence, a rock is safer for all involved.

[Renee]

Corbon is a bit expensive, you can shoot other bigger caliber guns much cheaper will just ball ammo.
Practice is the key, be it the lowly .22 you can kill someone with a good shot.

You'd only really need to shoot enough of the expensive Cor-Bon stuff to ensure it cycles properly though... Practice can be done with cheap 9mm ball ammo!

....This is how much you know or better yet DON'T know.

In order to become proficient with any gun that you will be using for self defense, you need to practice with the ammo that you will be carrying in the gun....Ball ammo does not always group like hollow point ammo and many times the point of impact can be off enough to mean the difference between life and death...

Mel just stopped talking...or typing as the situation may be.

[Renee]

What both of you are missing is that THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS STOPPING POWER IN A HANDGUN!!!

The myth of the "one shot stop" is just that,...A MYTH. In any handgun self-defense situation you need to shoot until your target is neutralized and that is rarely accomplished with one shot. This is why we practice "double taps" for IDPA competition.

Also the MYTH of requiring 15 rounds in a handgun has no real world credibility beyond a battlefield scenario and even then a handgun is going to be the last choice of weapon just before a knife or a sharp stick.

Statistics show that most self defense shootings start and end with less that 4 rounds fired. The need for high cap mags generally only takes place in competition games such as IPSC which is far and away from real world shooting. The idea that you need more than 8 or 10 rounds in any given situation where the use of a handgun is necessary, is a concept fit for yahoos only and people who have no confidence in their shooting abilities. Blasting away, throwing mass quantities of lead downrange does not a competent pistolero make.

Also, most new semiautomatic handguns are limited to 10 round mags because more and more states are banning hi-cap mags. But for you spray and pray types that want a hi-cap .45 ACP or a .40 S&W, they're out there. Glock ...STI and FNX all make one.

Stopping, knockdown, I think there is, and mostly it's the slower plodding rounds that take people down.
The rounds you keep.

Placement is the key, but nobody can shoot anymore so they need more rounds.

Exactly...bullet placement is key and that means you have to place the first and second rounds where they will do the most damage...In real world self-defence shooting hi-cap mags are irrelevant.

In order to become proficient with any firearm, you need lots and I mean LOTS of range time. And I don't just mean punching holes in paper once a month. For handgun proficiency I highly recommend running a IDPA course at least once a week along with basic target practice. While IDPA may not be the real thing, but thankfully it's as close as most people will ever get to being put in a situation where you need to know how to draw, fire, and do a tactical reload while keeping retention of the partially fired mag...While your life may not be on the line, it does come with it's own set of pressures to perform in terms of timing and judgement while performing proper bullet placement.

[Mel Gibson]

Tell me Mel, how much combat simulation shooting have you done?...I'm guess none, so regardless of what you have studied, your actual performance is a big fat unknown. For all you know, you might be better off with a hand full of rocks and since 9 times out of 10 your are under the influence, a rock is safer for all involved.

I already mentioned studying well known police shootouts, which gives us all a better understanding of the true dynamics at play, compared to your role playing at the local range...

Remember, this isn't a discussion about my performance in combat situations, since I'm unlikely to be engaged in one... This is a discussion about what firearms and calibers work, and how well they work, in real world situations.

[Mel Gibson]

....This is how much you know or better yet DON'T know.

In order to become proficient with any gun that you will be using for self defense, you need to practice with the ammo that you will be carrying in the gun....Ball ammo does not always group like hollow point ammo and many times the point of impact can be off enough to mean the difference between life and death...

Mel just stopped talking...or typing as the situation may be.

My Federal Hydra-Shok ammo groups virtually the same as the cheap 9mm ball ammo. Olympic pistol shooting competition accuracy isn't required, nor is it really even possible, in combat situations...

Grab a long gun if high accuracy is a requirement...

[Mel Gibson]

Mel just stopped talking...or typing as the situation may be.

Now maybe you should stop talking, or better yet go back to the Chank forum where you clowns can entertain yourselves day in and day out talking about banned posters.

This is a respectful forum, and this is a respectful firearms thread. Something you are apparently unable to appreciate, since your posts contain more low-brow attempts at personal attacks than actual 'on topic' material.

[Odinson]

Here is stopping power.

A windlass crossbow.

[Odinson]

You can build a ballista and put it on the rooftop.

A polybolos is a repeating ballista... Maximum home defense.

The invading barbarians are gonna get dozens of ballista bolts up their black asses.

[Blue Frost]

Here is stopping power.

A windlass crossbow.

I had a 250 lb crossbow at one time, loved the thing.
I guess it's about 125 feet to my fence from the house, but I could shoot a bolt into the bolt I already shot before.
I wish I still had the thing, it was a lot of fun.

[Odinson]

Stopping power.

[Blue Frost]

What a waste of good watermelon.

[Mel Gibson]

What a waste of good watermelon.

Total waste! I like watermelon, and I'm not even Black!