Police Shootings, and abuse

[Renee]

But your magic bullet that has all the stopping power in the world, doesnt exist within pistol parameters.

First thing you have written in this entire thread that makes sense....

[Odinson]

These cops are always acting like they are dealing with a Samurai or a Jedi..

Instead of a knife wielding dopehead..

[Odinson]

But your magic bullet that has all the stopping power in the world, doesnt exist within pistol parameters.

First thing you have written in this entire thread that makes sense....

I seem to recall that you think .45 is more effective at stopping the perp.

When we were first discussing the stopping power months ago..

[Renee]

But your magic bullet that has all the stopping power in the world, doesnt exist within pistol parameters.

First thing you have written in this entire thread that makes sense....

I seem to recall that you think .45 is more effective at stopping the perp.

When we were first discussing the stopping power months ago..

Effectiveness is relative.....I've also written that there is NO such thing as "stopping" power from handguns.

And since stopping power is suspect, it's not hard to figure out that bigger is probably better.

[Odinson]

We had a black man shot 17 times with 9mm by several officers, he lived till he got to the hospital.
The 9 will drill right through you at some range, same with a lot of rounds.
Shot placement, and the right round counts a lot.

All I can say for those officers is they had bad training, and or judgment, likely both.

Another story, in WW2 the Turks would be so high some 50cals would hit them, and they would keep coming so drugs are a major game changer.
Gurkhas also, watch it when you here the chanting they will get shot to pieces just to take you down.

He didnt go down with the first shot..

Everybodys pants got filled with poop..


They panicked and started unloading on the groid without even aiming.

[Blue Frost]

We had a black man shot 17 times with 9mm by several officers, he lived till he got to the hospital.
The 9 will drill right through you at some range, same with a lot of rounds.
Shot placement, and the right round counts a lot.

All I can say for those officers is they had bad training, and or judgment, likely both.

Another story, in WW2 the Turks would be so high some 50cals would hit them, and they would keep coming so drugs are a major game changer.
Gurkhas also, watch it when you here the chanting they will get shot to pieces just to take you down.

Actually the way they handled a lot of the situation was well done. Their training was good up to a certian point. They led the perp away from the more populated area and out to the main road where backup was arriving...That was a good strategic call.

Where their training fell down was in neutralizing the perp. They obviously panicked and crumbled under the stress of the situation.....It happens a lot. The lack of action by the second officer as well as the backup, is what fucked up the situation. The officers should have resigned themselves that it was going to end messy and should have been better mentally prepared for it.

Unfortunately we are Monday morning quarterbacking this thing. It's easy to say that cops should be better trained or that they should automatically know what to do in a split second but that's not always the case....Police officers are human and being so are frequently flawed...It's "each to his or her own gifts" in times of extreme stress. There are a lot of cops out there that should not be cops and not because they are bad people, but because when the shit gets real, they just don't have the constitution for it.

You never back away like they did, not in that situation, or fighting hand to hand.
They never looked back, and could fall letting the perp jump them, you also have no way of stopping someone from pushing you down, or grabbed like the one did.
They gave ground when that gives the perp control of the situation also because of PR putting themselves in danger while giving up control.
Sorry I see that was a fail all around. and why cops need either a viable way of taking them down without injury to themselves, or use of deadly methods.

I know I'm armchair, but even I can see whats wrong there, and one officer almost paid with his life.

[Blue Frost]

We had a black man shot 17 times with 9mm by several officers, he lived till he got to the hospital.
The 9 will drill right through you at some range, same with a lot of rounds.
Shot placement, and the right round counts a lot.

All I can say for those officers is they had bad training, and or judgment, likely both.

Another story, in WW2 the Turks would be so high some 50cals would hit them, and they would keep coming so drugs are a major game changer.
Gurkhas also, watch it when you here the chanting they will get shot to pieces just to take you down.

He didnt go down with the first shot..

Everybodys pants got filled with poop..


They panicked and started unloading on the groid without even aiming.

They should have unloaded on him, and not let him back up again.

[Renee]

We had a black man shot 17 times with 9mm by several officers, he lived till he got to the hospital.
The 9 will drill right through you at some range, same with a lot of rounds.
Shot placement, and the right round counts a lot.

All I can say for those officers is they had bad training, and or judgment, likely both.

Another story, in WW2 the Turks would be so high some 50cals would hit them, and they would keep coming so drugs are a major game changer.
Gurkhas also, watch it when you here the chanting they will get shot to pieces just to take you down.

Actually the way they handled a lot of the situation was well done. Their training was good up to a certian point. They led the perp away from the more populated area and out to the main road where backup was arriving...That was a good strategic call.

Where their training fell down was in neutralizing the perp. They obviously panicked and crumbled under the stress of the situation.....It happens a lot. The lack of action by the second officer as well as the backup, is what fucked up the situation. The officers should have resigned themselves that it was going to end messy and should have been better mentally prepared for it.

Unfortunately we are Monday morning quarterbacking this thing. It's easy to say that cops should be better trained or that they should automatically know what to do in a split second but that's not always the case....Police officers are human and being so are frequently flawed...It's "each to his or her own gifts" in times of extreme stress. There are a lot of cops out there that should not be cops and not because they are bad people, but because when the shit gets real, they just don't have the constitution for it.

You never back away like they did, not in that situation, or fighting hand to hand.
They never looked back, and could fall letting the perp jump them, you also have no way of stopping someone from pushing you down, or grabbed like the one did.
They gave ground when that gives the perp control of the situation also because of PR putting themselves in danger while giving up control.
Sorry I see that was a fail all around. and why cops need either a viable way of taking them down without injury to themselves, or use of deadly methods.

I know I'm armchair, but even I can see whats wrong there, and one officer almost paid with his life.

Wrong...The officers had plenty of room and kept the perp at a distance. Leading him out and away from the populated area was a good move. Giving ground and keeping the perp at a distance gave the officers a measure of control over the situation. In a situation like that you keep the armed assailant at range and keep them from closing the distance. As you saw at the end of the video, the cops made the mistake of allowed the armed assailant into what is known as the "red zone" which when dealing with a knife wielding lunatic, is too fucking close.

It is an established fact in law enforcement and armed self defense circles that a knife wielding attacker, who is in reasonable physical condition, can close a 21 foot distance in 1.5 seconds. If you allow the assailant within the so called "red zone" you have less than 1 second to react.

Keeping the armed perp at a distance in the hope that he will submit to the officer's demands to disarm, is exactly what cops are trained to do. Only a dimwitted fool goes in full retard like some TV cowboy and gets up close and personal with an armed attacker when they have the option of keeping him at range.

[Mel Gibson]

I completely agree with Renee in this case. Everything went exactly as it should have, and as training dictates, until they failed to mag-dump perp after he charged them again after initially being shot and wounded.

Luckily the last couple of shots fired did hit where they were supposed to hit, and the perp was quickly exterminated, even by the lowly 9mm round.

[Blue Frost]

Your trained to control the situation, backing up blindly isn't controlled in any universe.

That data is well known to us who have read it when it comes to staying away, and travel time.
So knowing that you both should agree that walking backwards you can't get away, or avoid getting grabbed up like the one cop did.
There is training how to back away, they where just walking backwards wrong stance, and not looking. If he kept his distance he would have not have stumbled back being prone.

Also being in control you don't back away like that, you hold your ground, and if he comes at you you shot to kill.
And as for getting him away the area was clear a long while before the shots fired.
Them letting him up again was another mistake, tasers, or more shots would have been warranted.
Sloppy work al around, and the cop is lucky the man really didn't want to kill one of them, just himself it seemed.

[Renee]

Your trained to control the situation, backing up blindly isn't controlled in any universe.

That data is well known to us who have read it when it comes to staying away, and travel time.
So knowing that you both should agree that walking backwards you can't get away, or avoid getting grabbed up like the one cop did.
There is training how to back away, they where just walking backwards wrong stance, and not looking. If he kept his distance he would have not have stumbled back being prone.

Also being in control you don't back away like that, you hold your ground, and if he comes at you you shot to kill.
And as for getting him away the area was clear a long while before the shots fired.
Them letting him up again was another mistake, tasers, or more shots would have been warranted.
Sloppy work al around, and the cop is lucky the man really didn't want to kill one of them, just himself it seemed.

How do you know they didn't know where they were going or that they were backing up blindly?....You can't tell from the angle of the body cam....At least I can't.

Secondly...The priority was to disarm the perp and protect innocent lives and that meant moving the non compliant perp away from the civilian area where there were residential homes and cars.

The cops did exactly what they were supposed to do up until the very end.

[Mel Gibson]

Agree with Renee. If you watch the vid, the cops are scanning what's behind them with regularity.

They just failed to mag-dump when perp got up again after being shot.

[Blue Frost]

You don't walk backwards like they where even if they did scan which they where not so much.
The video shows them not looking, it's a bad move, and not training, and not taking the situation as serious as it was.
That's the whole reason the one cop ended up prone.
Like it or not they f'ed up badly, proof is one was almost killed.

[Blue Frost]

This cop did it better, and one shot.

[Odinson]

At the end of the video "ma´am stay with us... Stay with us"..

He started aiming at her... Stay with us or I´ll shoot.

[Renee]

You don't walk backwards like they where even if they did scan which they where not so much.
The video shows them not looking, it's a bad move, and not training, and not taking the situation as serious as it was.
That's the whole reason the one cop ended up prone.
Like it or not they f'ed up badly, proof is one was almost killed.

Oh they were taking it very seriously...You can hear the tension and the stress in the cops voice. They weren't fucking around.

There is no difference in the two videos other than how they ended. The first video the cops had to move the perp a lot further to him away from the civilian area. They also had to negotiate curbing and a center island in the road, while keeping focus on an armed perp. The second video the cop retreated backwards EXACTLY like you say they shouldn't but for some odd reason...it's better...

When I get a chance I'm going to send both videos to my father who is a retired cop...He's an almost 30 year veteran of urban street work and we will see if what the first video shows is wrong. I have a feeling he is going to agree that the police in the first video did alright until the very end.

[Odinson]

That was a serious, serious mistake..

He almost got his whistle...

Slitter´d...

[Blue Frost]

You don't walk backwards like they where even if they did scan which they where not so much.
The video shows them not looking, it's a bad move, and not training, and not taking the situation as serious as it was.
That's the whole reason the one cop ended up prone.
Like it or not they f'ed up badly, proof is one was almost killed.

Oh they were taking it very seriously...You can hear the tension and the stress in the cops voice. They weren't fucking around.

There is no difference in the two videos other than how they ended. The first video the cops had to move the perp a lot further to him away from the civilian area. They also had to negotiate curbing and a center island in the road, while keeping focus on an armed perp. The second video the cop retreated backwards EXACTLY like you say they shouldn't but for some odd reason...it's better...

When I get a chance I'm going to send both videos to my father who is a retired cop...He's an almost 30 year veteran of urban street work and we will see if what the first video shows is wrong. I have a feeling he is going to agree that the police in the first video did alright until the very end.

There is a difference, the second video had a more seasoned cop, and he only had to shoot the woman once.
Also the people had knives for different intent it seemed. The woman just wanted to kill someone, the man it seemed didn't want to hurt anyone especially when he didn't kill the cop.

Another thing, the first cops went begging where the other did not.
They backed away without, and got caught in a bad situation.
The other cop even though you couldn't see him seemed to look since he veered to the right trying to keep the car between them till she came closer.

This is my opinion, keep calm, stand your ground, keep control of the situation best you can, and if they don't listen open fire.

[Blue Frost]

A deserving well done job by the policeman. This is what you get when you close the nuthouses, a democrat vote, but a danger to the community.

[Odinson]

One could argue that a scissor wielding grandma isnt a threat to anybody...