..Guns Guns & More Guns

[Blue Frost]

I like both booths open because of thieves, and I just like the space.
Last time I went the place was crowded , people doubled up, but I had both booths open

[Renee]

These kinds of Hollyweird abortions always crack me up.... Do you think anyone on the set or the writers actually understand the consequences of pulling the trigger on a centerfire gun in an enclosed space like an elevator?... Instant ear pain from shattered eardrums and most likely permanent deafness.

Although in that scene the trigger was not pulled, you see it all the time on TV and in movies. If you have ever fired a gun of a substantial caliber on an indoor range or even under a covered outdoor range, without hearing protection,...you'll get the picture.

It wouldn't cause perforated eardrums or permanent deafness. To perforated an eardrum requires a pressure differential that is more than a firearm can create, unless the muzzle blast is perhaps an inch from your ear. Perforated eardrums will also heal, so even that isn't permanent.

That said, long term effects of regular shooting without hearing protection can certainly be a thing with enough exposure: An "EEEEEEEEEE" in the ear after shooting without protection can be tolerated maybe every now and then. Regular exposure to that will certainly have an effect though, no doubt about it.

I always wear hearing protection now, but have been exposed to unprotected shooting in the past: If your ears are ringing, wear protection. Which means for pretty much every calibre other than a .22 rimfire. I know hunters don't like hearing protection, but they seem fine since they simply aren't actually shooting many rounds at all when out on a hunt. Ears can handle the occasional loud bang.

Bullshit... A gun going off right next to your head in a "confined space" as in the video, can an will cause shattered eardrums and permanent hearing damage... Hearing damage does not heal and it does not grow back...Once it is lost it usually stays lost to some degree...Just ask any ENT Doctor.

Even your lowly 9mm has an average decibel rating of about 160 dB. Exposure to any sharp noise over 84 dB can cause permanent hearing damage. 160 dB in a small space will cause a concentrated pressure wave that can cause eardrum rupture if one were to discharge a round within a small, highly reflective space. When I say "highly reflective" I mean a space with little of no soft sound absorbing material in it, i.e. elevator, etc.

Causal attitudes about hearing protection is one of the most common causes of hearing loss in men.

[Mel Gibson]

Bullshit... A gun going off right next to your head in a "confined space" as in the video, can an will cause shattered eardrums and permanent hearing damage... Hearing damage does not heal and it does not grow back...Once it is lost it usually stays lost to some degree...Just ask any ENT Doctor.

Even your lowly 9mm has an average decibel rating of about 160 dB. Exposure to any sharp noise over 84 dB can cause permanent hearing damage. 160 dB in a small space will cause a concentrated pressure wave that can cause eardrum rupture if one were to discharge a round within a small, highly reflective space. When I say "highly reflective" I mean a space with little of no soft sound absorbing material in it, i.e. elevator, etc.

Causal attitudes about hearing protection is one of the most common causes of hearing loss in men.

I'll somewhat disagree. I've actually had a perforated ear drum (High School fist fight, and the fucker managed to clock my ear at just the right angle)... I was deaf in one ear for like a couple of weeks if I recall correctly, but they will grow back. And I have no lasting hearing issues from that at all, as I have worked a job in the past that required mandatory hearing testing, and results came back normal.

So I am proof positive that a blown ear drum isn't usually a big deal.

But I will agree with long term exposure to noise... That is much more damaging it seems. That will cause a slow degradation in hearing that won't heal itself. Which is why I wear muffs for anything other than a .22 LR.

In a way it makes sense, since our bodies evolved in an environment where a lightning crack would've been the loudest thing we'd ever hear. And although strikes can be tremendously loud, they are not common loud noises at all...

But to get back on track, if you're required to discharge a firearm in an enclosed space to begin with, your hearing is probably the least of your concerns at that point!

[Renee]

Bullshit... A gun going off right next to your head in a "confined space" as in the video, can an will cause shattered eardrums and permanent hearing damage... Hearing damage does not heal and it does not grow back...Once it is lost it usually stays lost to some degree...Just ask any ENT Doctor.

Even your lowly 9mm has an average decibel rating of about 160 dB. Exposure to any sharp noise over 84 dB can cause permanent hearing damage. 160 dB in a small space will cause a concentrated pressure wave that can cause eardrum rupture if one were to discharge a round within a small, highly reflective space. When I say "highly reflective" I mean a space with little of no soft sound absorbing material in it, i.e. elevator, etc.

Causal attitudes about hearing protection is one of the most common causes of hearing loss in men.

I'll somewhat disagree. I've actually had a perforated ear drum (High School fist fight, and the fucker managed to clock my ear at just the right angle)... I was deaf in one ear for like a couple of weeks if I recall correctly, but they will grow back. And I have no lasting hearing issues from that at all, as I have worked a job in the past that required mandatory hearing testing, and results came back normal.

So I am proof positive that a blown ear drum isn't usually a big deal.

But I will agree with long term exposure to noise... That is much more damaging it seems. That will cause a slow degradation in hearing that won't heal itself. Which is why I wear muffs for anything other than a .22 LR.

In a way it makes sense, since our bodies evolved in an environment where a lightning crack would've been the loudest thing we'd ever hear. And although strikes can be tremendously loud, they are not common loud noises at all...

But to get back on track, if you're required to discharge a firearm in an enclosed space to begin with, your hearing is probably the least of your concerns at that point!

The truth is even if your eardrum has healed, you probably have suffered some hearing loss... A ruptured eardrum usually leaves some scar tissue and that can affect how the eardrum reacts to sound... It might be an imperceptible loss but it probably does exist... Furthermore there is a difference between a minor perforation or detachment and a catastrophic "shatter" or tear of the eardrum. In the case of a catastrophic eardrum injury, regaining your full hearing becomes a lot less likely and many times requires surgery for repair or replacement of the eardrum. I know this because I have seen a lot of the older members of the gun club I belong to who didn't take hearing protection seriously in their youth and ended up deaf of partially deaf.... Many of them wear hearing aids and or have had surgery to correct the damage.

I agree that if you need to discharge a firearm in an enclosed space your hearing is not tops on your list of priorities. But that doesn't change the fact that Hollywood likes to portray shooting a high-powered gun indoors is no big deal... It's almost comical but it's intensely misleading... People are very stupid and I can picture it in my mind now with all these yahoos buying guns who shouldn't own a sharp stick let alone a firearm,...shooting them without ear protection and then the lawsuits start to happen. That may not be of concern for you up in Canada but I can see it becoming a very real problem here. In the US today there are 400 plus million guns and new gun ownership is growing by leaps and bounds and I hate to say it but many of my fellow gun owners have no business owning or using a firearm.

[Odinson]

Sometimes when you are at the range and you dont have your ear-plugs on... Man, it is loud.

And its an outdoor range.

The wooden walls confine the sound just enough to make it unbearable.


Gunshot is definitely loud enough to make your eardrums rupture... Especially when in a confined space like concrete elevator shaft.

[Blue Frost]

Any time yours ears are ringing you have some damage, the longer the worse it is.
I have some issues with my right ear from guns, and loud machinery from jobs I did.
I still hear good, but did have some loss in hearing by the test results.

[Odinson]

[Blue Frost]

I had my Ak go fully automatic, and still controlled the thing while I dropped the mag out.
I think someone needs to beat the crap out of that idiot, and shoot at him a while.

[Renee]

I'm thinking of buying a 20ga pump gun... Any suggestions?...Believe it or not I'm woefully short on pumps in my collection. I don't want to go for my lungs because IMHO, pumps don't warrent spending real money. They are utilitarian guns, so I want to keep the cost down. I want a beater so if it gets scratched in the brush I don't care. Plus my youngest is getting ready to start shooting a shotgun so I want something that will fit her needs.

I've checked the prices on used Ithaca Model 37s and Winchester Model 12s and in today's market, the prices are stupid inflated... The same goes for the Rem 870 Wing Master and Browning BPS... the prices are inflated well beyond the worth of the gun.

I was considering the Rem 870 express but the new ones are basically rough junk. That leaves the Mossberg 500 or the Winchester SXP... Not s huge fan of Mossys as the 500 and the 88 Maverick always felt and looked cheap to me. That leaves the Win and a plethora of Turkish made stuff that can be hit or miss. Even the Winchester is fully Trurkish made now but it's a proven design as it is just the next Gen Winchester 1300. Plus it's backed by FN who now owns the Winchester and if course the Browning brand name.

There is also the Benelli Super Nova but I'm not a fan...They are heavy especially for a plastic gun. They're homely as fuck and they rattle like a cheap pos.

So I'm open to suggestions if anyone has any.

[Renee]

Typical rag head gun handling...

Looks like Saddam Hussein.... But then again all male sand rats look alike to me.

Some breeds of people are too stupid to be trusted with guns or anything that shoots or throws a projectile. A-rabs or whatever they call themselves are a prime example.

[Blue Frost]

I'm thinking of buying a 20ga pump gun... Any suggestions?...Believe it or not I'm woefully short on pumps in my collection. I don't want to go for my lungs because IMHO, pumps don't warrent spending real money. They are utilitarian guns, so I want to keep the cost down. I want a beater so if it gets scratched in the brush I don't care. Plus my youngest is getting ready to start shooting a shotgun so I want something that will fit her needs.

I've checked the prices on used Ithaca Model 37s and Winchester Model 12s and in today's market, the prices are stupid inflated... The same goes for the Rem 870 Wing Master and Browning BPS... the prices are inflated well beyond the worth of the gun.

I was considering the Rem 870 express but the new ones are basically rough junk. That leaves the Mossberg 500 or the Winchester SXP... Not s huge fan of Mossys as the 500 and the 88 Maverick always felt and looked cheap to me. That leaves the Win and a plethora of Turkish made stuff that can be hit or miss. Even the Winchester is fully Trurkish made now but it's a proven design as it is just the next Gen Winchester 1300. Plus it's backed by FN who now owns the Winchester and if course the Browning brand name.

There is also the Benelli Super Nova but I'm not a fan...They are heavy especially for a plastic gun. They're homely as fuck and they rattle like a cheap pos.

So I'm open to suggestions if anyone has any.

Winchester makes the sxp, but it's all plastic, but under $500, and it's 20 gauge.
Maybe Mossburg makes something.

Really most of the newer ones are plastic, to me that's a turnoff, but some I would consider.

[Odinson]

Typical rag head gun handling...

Looks like Saddam Hussein.... But then again all male sand rats look alike to me.

Some breeds of people are too stupid to be trusted with guns or anything that shoots or throws a projectile. A-rabs or whatever they call themselves are a prime example.

Yeah and I bet there is a city/town or something in the direction he is shooting... People have been known to die from these celebratory "AKHWSALAM ALI BABA!!" shootings.

I´d hate to die because some fool thinks its cool to leave a loaded gun on the table while there are kids in the house.

[Renee]

I'm thinking of buying a 20ga pump gun... Any suggestions?...Believe it or not I'm woefully short on pumps in my collection. I don't want to go for my lungs because IMHO, pumps don't warrent spending real money. They are utilitarian guns, so I want to keep the cost down. I want a beater so if it gets scratched in the brush I don't care. Plus my youngest is getting ready to start shooting a shotgun so I want something that will fit her needs.

I've checked the prices on used Ithaca Model 37s and Winchester Model 12s and in today's market, the prices are stupid inflated... The same goes for the Rem 870 Wing Master and Browning BPS... the prices are inflated well beyond the worth of the gun.

I was considering the Rem 870 express but the new ones are basically rough junk. That leaves the Mossberg 500 or the Winchester SXP... Not s huge fan of Mossys as the 500 and the 88 Maverick always felt and looked cheap to me. That leaves the Win and a plethora of Turkish made stuff that can be hit or miss. Even the Winchester is fully Trurkish made now but it's a proven design as it is just the next Gen Winchester 1300. Plus it's backed by FN who now owns the Winchester and if course the Browning brand name.

There is also the Benelli Super Nova but I'm not a fan...They are heavy especially for a plastic gun. They're homely as fuck and they rattle like a cheap pos.

So I'm open to suggestions if anyone has any.

Winchester makes the sxp, but it's all plastic, but under $500, and it's 20 gauge.
Maybe Mossburg makes something.

Really most of the newer ones are plastic, to me that's a turnoff, but some I would consider.

Winchester has a couple models made of wood...The SXP field and their SXP trench gun have wood stocks. The quality of the wood is pretty low but it's wood nonetheless. I'm old school, I'm not a big plastic or a camo coated gun fan.

Also unfortunately the trigger guards on most bargin basement pumps and autos are made of polymer nowadays but I guess that is to be expected for the price. What troubles me about the SXP is that it's just the next generation Win 1300 speed pump. Both the 1200 and the 1300 had a plastic magazine throat and it was common for them to crack and cause the gun not to cycle reliably. I believe the SXP utilizes the same kind of magazine throat. It's a cheap part and an easy fix if it breaks, it's just that it's a pain in the ass.

As I said, Mossberg pumps always seemed to be built as cheap as their price would suggest and the new ones aren't getting any better. I ways viewed them as K-Mart quality guns.

[Blue Frost]

I would take the Trench gun because the ugly cooler it has
Something useless on it, but makes liberals cry because it has one.

[Renee]

I would take the Trench gun because the ugly cooler it has
Something useless on it, but makes liberals cry because it has one.

I like the Trench gun too.. Very cool. If the SXP Field works out I might pick one up at a later date as a home defense gun...I need a good reliable short barreled 12ga in the event that I need to get rid of unwanted pests (like sasquatchs, skunk apes and bears and shit) quickly.

[Blue Frost]

Have a heart, Skunk Apes are easily gotten rid of with a bar of soap thrown at them.

I might look at one of the Trench ones later, it's got my interest up.

[Renee]

Have a heart, Skunk Apes are easily gotten rid of with a bar of soap thrown at them.

I might look at one of the Trench ones later, it's got my interest up.

You need something a little heavier that a bar of soap for some of the more persistent species.

Check out the mossberg 590 Retrograde. It's an upgrade from the standard 500 and it's an old school trench broom as well.

[Blue Frost]

590 Retrograde I have looked at before years back, i forgot about it though.
Being I'm not seeing that well anymore for the fog I can still hear as good as any dog.
Point, and listen for the splatter

[Odinson]

The widower is suing Alec Baldwin.

[Blue Frost]

I hope he gets what he is wanting, good on him.
Baldwin will have to prove the gun was faulty also i believe if he wasn't negligent.
A good prosecutor would criminally charge him also.

In other news the Sandy Hook parents have got 70 million coming from a gun manufacturer.
The loony courts blame a manufacturer, and make them pay for something a person did, so lets all sue the car manufacturers whenever we get in a wreck.
Oh, lets sue the fast food place for us being fat that's a good one.