The Bible discussion thread

[Blue Frost]

Your baptized after repenting, babies have no sins .

[beanthere]

Ah, I see were in deep water with baptism. Baptism, (as I was taught), is an outward sign of an inward change. Although, it doesn't seem to be an actual must for salvation, not being baptized may indicate that perhaps ones heart may not yet be right with the Lord. The desire to let everyone know, through a public demonstration, that you mean business with your relationship with God seems to be something He expects from us. In several countries where Christianity is frowned upon, a person could say out loud that they have become a Christian and there would be no problem, but if that person gets baptized, it could mean being ostracized, by family and friends and perhaps even a death sentence.

[Blue Frost]

Anyone reading the verses I posted ? They pretty much say you do have to be baptized.

[Sharlee]

Ah, I see were in deep water with baptism. Baptism, (as I was taught), is an outward sign of an inward change. Although, it doesn't seem to be an actual must for salvation, not being baptized may indicate that perhaps ones heart may not yet be right with the Lord. The desire to let everyone know, through a public demonstration, that you mean business with your relationship with God seems to be something He expects from us. In several countries where Christianity is frowned upon, a person could say out loud that they have become a Christian and there would be no problem, but if that person gets baptized, it could mean being ostracized, by family and friends and perhaps even a death sentence.

^ That's very true, about baptism being very offensive in some other countries. My brother lived in the Middle East for quite a while and said that in the countries where it was illegal to convert to Christianity, the act of baptism sealed your fate because the authorities saw it as a final, definitive turning away from Islam.

[Tribrid Vampire]

In countries where Christianity is frowned upon, why God didn't give these people a chance to go to heaven? It's not one's fault that they were born in such a country.

[Sharlee]

Anyone reading the verses I posted ? They pretty much say you do have to be baptized.

I totally agree that those verses support being baptized, but I don't agree that when you read the Bible as a whole, it teaches that baptism is what makes you saved.

Some verses connect salvation with baptism while others don't. So the way we reconcile the differences is to apply a cultural understanding, which is that salvation comes from the inward act of repentance and that the outward sign of baptism follows as a natural course of action to publicly declare, as bean said, what happened inwardly.

[Blue Frost]

Like the Christians under the old Roman empire many went underground GF, persecution was a way of life for them.
i am not a Christian, but wish we could bring them all here from over there.

[beanthere]

That place has a cost, and a set plan for you to travel to get there. If you stray of the path you are going in the other direction even as nice, and sincere as you can be.

Jesus Himself said, as recorded in John 6:37 [13],

[Blue Frost]

Anyone reading the verses I posted ? They pretty much say you do have to be baptized.

I totally agree that those verses support being baptized, but I don't agree that when you read the Bible as a whole, it teaches that baptism is what makes you saved.

Some verses connect salvation with baptism while others don't. So the way we reconcile the differences is to apply a cultural understanding, which is that salvation comes from the inward act of repentance and that the outward sign of baptism follows as a natural course of action to publicly declare, as bean said, what happened inwardly.

it's not what makes you saved, but a part of it you must follow as best as you can. it's the part that is for the remission of your sins like in the verse above .
You can repent, but the baptism is the part that symbolizes the washing away of them.

[Sharlee]

In countries where Christianity is frowned upon, why God didn't give these people a chance to go to heaven? It's not one's fault that they were born in such a country.

That's a great question, GF, and one that I often struggle with. But the answer that I come up with is that God has given those people a chance to go to heaven ... it's just less politically acceptable for them to believe.

Take Muslim countries for example. The Bible, which has God's entire plan of salvation in it, is considered a holy book that Muslims are expected to read. So those people have the choice of either believing the truth of what they read or reading the Qu'ran, which is a pretty messed up piece of literature. It's not easy for them to believe, but it's not impossible.

[Sharlee]

Right ... Blue has a good point. In Jesus' day, and shortly after his death, Christians were regularly persecuted and put to death. It's not something that's new today.

[Blue Frost]

I didn't know this thread would make my head hurt
Ill have to back down a bit on the thinking.

[Blue Frost]

Right ... Blue has a good point. In Jesus' day, and shortly after his death, Christians were regularly persecuted and put to death. It's not something that's new today.

Many have been killed over the time of the bible, and some just for having one.
The really sad part if many are very good people, and wanted nothing more than left to worship .

[Sharlee]

Anyone reading the verses I posted ? They pretty much say you do have to be baptized.

I totally agree that those verses support being baptized, but I don't agree that when you read the Bible as a whole, it teaches that baptism is what makes you saved.

Some verses connect salvation with baptism while others don't. So the way we reconcile the differences is to apply a cultural understanding, which is that salvation comes from the inward act of repentance and that the outward sign of baptism follows as a natural course of action to publicly declare, as bean said, what happened inwardly.

it's not what makes you saved, but a part of it you must follow as best as you can. it's the part that is for the remission of your sins like in the verse above .
You can repent, but the baptism is the part that symbolizes the washing away of them.

I agree that it's symbolic, but I don't read that it's the actual washing away. If you look at the one verse you quoted, it seems to say that, but many more indicate that salvation itself happens prior to baptism.

There are a number of different views that are taken by different churches and we're not going to resolve this issue tonight.

[Sharlee]

I didn't know this thread would make my head hurt
Ill have to back down a bit on the thinking.

The funny thing is that people accuse Christians of not being able to think. Most Christians I know are constantly thinking through issues like this and making a real effort co correctly interpret the Bible.

[Blue Frost]

Well I'm not a Christian, and thinking is something I'm not used lately. lol
Ill have to get the neurons firing again.

[beanthere]

Ooh, I wish I could stay here all night but I gotta get to bed. God bless you Blue and Sharlee, GF and Trooper.

[Sharlee]

Good night bean ... have a great sleep and an awesome Friday and long weekend!

[Blue Frost]

sweet dreams Bean, and have a great tomorrow my friend

[Blue Frost]

I hope nobody gets mad at me, politics, and religion can cause some tension.
You believe how you want, and don't let me press anyone please.