How to abuse a child - the Christian Way

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Berry Sweet
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Re: How to abuse a child - the Christian Way

Unread post by Berry Sweet »

I mean sometimes grown ups get into fights...a man calls his woman a cunt and she slaps him across the face...it's a wake up call. It's different for adults...but with a clear and understanding conscious with being raised, it's ok. We are all assholes and cunts every so often..sometimes we go overboard and don't see it till *slap* someone does something about it.


:purdy:
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Blurt
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How to abuse a child - the Christian Way

Unread post by Blurt »

My hero :wub: :

Dr. Phil's advice:

Ask yourself these three questions before the next time you go to spank your child

Is Spanking a Calming Interaction?

If your goal is to get your child to calm down, chances are, hitting them doesn't bring he or she any closer to that. Your child will most likely understand hitting as a chaotic behavior, and instead of relaxing, your child will become more anxious — and he or she will be more likely to return to his unruly behavior.

What Does Your Child Learn by Being Hit?

When you spank, you introduce chaos into your child's world. This tells him or her that violence is acceptable, and it's an OK way to react when you're mad. If your child is subdued, but continues to think of hitting as an acceptable behavior, is the trade-off worth it?

Is It Working for the Long-Term?

If it's working so well, why does your child continue to push you to the edge? Spanking your kids may work to suppress his or her bad behavior temporarily, but it isn't a learning type of discipline. The message they get from being spanked is "I'm a bad kid," which doesn't help your child figure out what he or she did wrong — or how to keep from doing it again!


Dr. Phil on Spanking

Hmmm... I can't remember... does Phil have kids? And, if so, have they managed to stay out of jail? :cool:


me
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How to abuse a child - the Christian Way

Unread post by me »

RealWoman wrote:
minaeni wrote: so in other words, what keeps her on the step is still the same thing that kept her there when she was 2 only she learned to bs about it now:)
min, honestly. Don't you feel like a huge fucking hypocrite telling your kid hitting is wrong while smacking her/him on the ass?
Spanking isn't the tool I would use for teaching that.

It isn't complicated.


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Sharlee
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Re: How to abuse a child - the Christian Way

Unread post by Sharlee »

OK, I lied ... I wasn't quite done posting in this thread! Just had to respond to good ol' Dr. Phil.

Spanking in my house was never done in anger, so it had absolutely no chaotic behaviour. My children didn't become more anxious and they did NOT return to their unruly behaviour. Dr. Phil doesn't know how to spank ... he assumes it's lashing out at your child because you feel violent, which would cause all of the effects he anticipated. It's unfortunate he's not more well informed.

My children didn't learn that violence was acceptable or that it was OK to react with violence. That wasn't what I was teaching them, it wasn't what they learned ... again, Dr. Phil thinks spanking is violent; when done properly, it's not.

Spanking definitely worked well for the long term with my kids. I didn't spank often ... only when I couldn't afford to let them repeat bad behaviours because it seriously jeopardized them. It wasn't just running out into the street ... it was things like trying to drink out of the toilet (my son tried it exactly once when he was very tiny; he could have drowned).

My kids never "pushed me to the edge" so I have no idea what the good doctor is talking about. Again, he seems to be under the impression that parents who spank are enraged and come at their kids with fists flying. That's not how to properly spank and he's lumping abusive parents in with those who use spanking as just one of many tools in their discipline kit. (Interestingly enough, it's what many of you do with religious folk ... you assume that anyone who subscribes to a religion doesn't benefit in any way, but becomes some kind of brainwashed raving lunatic, incapable of exercising independent thought when actually it's you who's been brainwashed by the intolerant PC minority. Just saying.)

I think the last time I spanked either of my kids was when they were 3; after that, other methods were more effective and they could understand when I explained why certain activities were dangerous. Again, the proof is in the pudding ... neither of my kids remember ever having been spanked. They're not violent and they're both honour students, athletes, active in student government, free of criminal involvement, gainfully employed, respectful of others and kind to small children and animals. Spanking sure ruined them for life. :rolleyes: And given Dr. Phil's age, I'll betcha anything he was spanked as a child ... so I guess that's why he's so messed up?


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Sharlee
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How to abuse a child - the Christian Way

Unread post by Sharlee »

Berry Sweet wrote:I mean sometimes grown ups get into fights...a man calls his woman a cunt and she slaps him across the face...it's a wake up call. It's different for adults...but with a clear and understanding conscious with being raised, it's ok. We are all assholes and cunts every so often..sometimes we go overboard and don't see it till *slap* someone does something about it.
Uh, Berry ... if your guy calls you a cunt you should dump him and go find yourself a real man. Subjecting yourself and your daughter to that kind of treatment is wrong on every level. You shouldn't experience it, she shouldn't witness it. Don't waste your time slapping him ... expend that energy packing his things and throwing them out the window.


Don't believe everything you think.
me
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How to abuse a child - the Christian Way

Unread post by me »

In answer to Dr. Phil

Is spanking a calming action.

Spanking is not a calming action....it would be stupid to use it, to calm. :rolleyes:

What Does Your Child Learn by Being Hit?

Hopefully, they aren't such stupid children that they don't understand the difference between chaotic violence and a swat on the behind.

Is It Working for the Long-Term?

Yes....I would say it does. "The message they get from being spanked is "I'm a bad kid," which doesn't help your child figure out what he or she did wrong" I suppose if you spank a child while telling them they are a bad kid, they would get the same message as they would from being told they are a bad kid even without the spanking. Really Dr....use your head.


me
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Re: How to abuse a child - the Christian Way

Unread post by me »

Oh Sharlee....you beat me to it.....and with far better words. I couldn't agree more.
I'm starting to think that some of these people don't trust themselves with children and really don't give their children much credit for their ability to think and understand.


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Sharlee
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How to abuse a child - the Christian Way

Unread post by Sharlee »

me wrote:Oh Sharlee....you beat me to it.....and with far better words. I couldn't agree more.
I'm starting to think that some of these people don't trust themselves with children and really don't give their children much credit for their ability to think and understand.
Well, with far MORE words! :D

Yes, kids are really smart little critters and they pick up on the intonation of your words and your body language and they know whether they're being touched in love or in anger. Thankfully for parents, kids are also incredibly resilient and forgiving! I have to say, I loved minaeni's earlier comments about apologizing. There's always been lots of apologizing at our house too!


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me
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How to abuse a child - the Christian Way

Unread post by me »

Already answered.

"Yes, kids are really smart little critters and they pick up on the intonation of your words and your body language and they know whether they're being touched in love or in anger. "


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Blurt
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How to abuse a child - the Christian Way

Unread post by Blurt »

Sharlee wrote:It's unfortunate [Dr. Phil is] not more well informed.
"Unfortunate," Sharlee? I say it's a damned national tragedy, with the number of people who take his word for psychological gold!


me
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How to abuse a child - the Christian Way

Unread post by me »

RealWoman wrote:
me wrote:Already answered.

"Yes, kids are really smart little critters and they pick up on the intonation of your words and your body language and they know whether they're being touched in love or in anger. "
That doesn't answer my question.
You won't get a satisfactory answer from someone who doesn't see the hypocrisy the way you do.

I have sex in my house too....but I sure didn't feel like a hypocrite to expect my 12 year old wouldn't be allowed to do the same. =)))


minaeni
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How to abuse a child - the Christian Way

Unread post by minaeni »

RealWoman wrote:
Sharlee wrote: I have to say, I loved minaeni's earlier comments about apologizing. There's always been lots of apologizing at our house too!
We apologize for wrong doings and misunderstanding in our house all the time. That's definitely a two way street down the road of mutual respect. However, I don't apologize for disciplining my child. I am doing something to help them - wtf do I have to be sorry about?
uww. superior parent is superior:)

the question you are asking sharlee has been answered if you cared to read. the message is NOT that hitting is ok, it's not that timeouts are ok, the message is that you have the authority over your child and that they have to listen to you.


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minaeni
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Re: How to abuse a child - the Christian Way

Unread post by minaeni »

do you tell your kid all hitting is wrong? or do you tell some hitting is justified in severe cases of self defense?


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me
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How to abuse a child - the Christian Way

Unread post by me »

RealWoman wrote:
me wrote: You won't get a satisfactory answer from someone who doesn't see the hypocrisy the way you do.

I have sex in my house too....but I sure didn't feel like a hypocrite to expect my 12 year old wouldn't be allowed to do the same. =)))
So everyone doesn't see the hypocrisy in telling a child it's wrong to hit while hitting them? That's not to say there aren't tons of great justifications for the hypocrisy, but I don't think that changes what it is.

Do you tell your kid sex is wrong? Or do you tell sex is something for grown-ups?
I suppose you could tell them spanking is something for grown-ups to do ?
You just won't see, that nobody is recommending hitting your child while telling them it's wrong to hit.


me
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How to abuse a child - the Christian Way

Unread post by me »

RealWoman wrote:
minaeni wrote: uww. superior parent is superior:)

the question you are asking sharlee has been answered if you cared to read. the message is NOT that hitting is ok, it's not that timeouts are ok, the message is that you have the authority over your child and that they have to listen to you.
The question I have asked has not been answered by Sharlee yet, thank you very much.
It has....it's just not the answer you want. =)))


minaeni
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Unread post by minaeni »

You just won't see, that nobody is recommending hitting your child while telling them it's wrong to hit.
i had to laugh and it's not funny lol:((

i wonder if rw sees us as some video game characters:)..


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Sharlee
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Unread post by Sharlee »

RealWoman wrote:
Sharlee wrote:My children didn't learn that violence was acceptable or that it was OK to react with violence. That wasn't what I was teaching them, it wasn't what they learned
Sharlee, now how do you avoid the whole being hypocritical thing when you are teaching a child that hitting is wrong while hitting(spanking) them?
I’d intended to bow out of this thread because this is one of this issues on which we’re just not going to agree. But I’ve got to say, your question is legitimate and I can totally see where you’re coming from. I agree that on its face the situation seems hypocritical, but here’s my take on it.

I don’t see spanking in the same category as hitting. The word “hitting” is a loaded word … it may describe the same action, the impact of flesh on flesh, but it implies an intention to wound rather than impact and is an expression of anger rather than of love. Spanking, if done properly, isn’t hitting and isn’t seen by the child as hitting either. Children simply don’t see any hypocrisy at all and although mine were both spanked on occasion, they never even attempted to spank each other. They knew they didn’t have the authority to do it.

Further, I feel it’s not hypocritical because my children have license to do exactly the same thing when they’re parents.

As for the difference between spanking and hitting, I find this comparison helpful (sorry I couldn't post the table with the lines):


The Act --> Spanking is One or two swats to the buttocks or hand while Hitting/Abuse is striking repeatedly (or kicking, punching, choking)
The Manner in which it's done --> Spanking is controlled; intentional; with forethought while Hitting/Abuse is uncontrolled; reacting to the moment
The Intent --> Spanking is to correct wrong behavior while Hitting/Abuse is to vent anger or frustration
The Attitude --> Spanking has love and concern while Hitting/Abuse has anger and malice
The Results --> Spanking produces behavioral correction while Hitting/Abuse produces emotional and/or physical injury


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cc
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Unread post by cc »

minaeni wrote: i had to laugh and it's not funny lol:((

i wonder if rw sees us as some video game characters:)..
:rolleyes:


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Sharlee
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Unread post by Sharlee »

RealWoman wrote:
Sharlee wrote: I have to say, I loved minaeni's earlier comments about apologizing. There's always been lots of apologizing at our house too!
We apologize for wrong doings and misunderstanding in our house all the time. That's definitely a two way street down the road of mutual respect. However, I don't apologize for disciplining my child. I am doing something to help them - wtf do I have to be sorry about?
I didn't mean to imply that I apologize for disciplining them; I apologize when I do something wrong, same as you. I expect minaeni meant the same thing.


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anon
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Unread post by anon »

Sharlee wrote:
RealWoman wrote:
Sharlee, now how do you avoid the whole being hypocritical thing when you are teaching a child that hitting is wrong while hitting(spanking) them?
I’d intended to bow out of this thread because this is one of this issues on which we’re just not going to agree. But I’ve got to say, your question is legitimate and I can totally see where you’re coming from. I agree that on its face the situation seems hypocritical, but here’s my take on it.

I don’t see spanking in the same category as hitting. The word “hitting” is a loaded word … it may describe the same action, the impact of flesh on flesh, but it implies an intention to wound rather than impact and is an expression of anger rather than of love. Spanking, if done properly, isn’t hitting and isn’t seen by the child as hitting either. Children simply don’t see any hypocrisy at all and although mine were both spanked on occasion, they never even attempted to spank each other. They knew they didn’t have the authority to do it.

Further, I feel it’s not hypocritical because my children have license to do exactly the same thing when they’re parents.

As for the difference between spanking and hitting, I find this comparison helpful (sorry I couldn't post the table with the lines):


The Act --> Spanking is One or two swats to the buttocks or hand while Hitting/Abuse is striking repeatedly (or kicking, punching, choking)
The Manner in which it's done --> Spanking is controlled; intentional; with forethought while Hitting/Abuse is uncontrolled; reacting to the moment
The Intent --> Spanking is to correct wrong behavior while Hitting/Abuse is to vent anger or frustration
The Attitude --> Spanking has love and concern while Hitting/Abuse has anger and malice
The Results --> Spanking produces behavioral correction while Hitting/Abuse produces emotional and/or physical injury
Sharlee, thanks for not having bowed out of the thread, and thanks for this excellent analysis.


Excelsior!
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Sharlee
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How to abuse a child - the Christian Way

Unread post by Sharlee »

RealWoman wrote:I think people should think about these things rather than just doing what they had done to them or taking the easy way out.
I couldn't agree more.


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Sharlee
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Unread post by Sharlee »

anon wrote: Sharlee, thanks for not having bowed out of the thread, and thanks for this excellent analysis.
Thanks and you're welcome!


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cc
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Unread post by cc »

anon wrote:
Sharlee wrote:I’d intended to bow out of this thread because this is one of this issues on which we’re just not going to agree. But I’ve got to say, your question is legitimate and I can totally see where you’re coming from. I agree that on its face the situation seems hypocritical, but here’s my take on it.

I don’t see spanking in the same category as hitting. The word “hitting” is a loaded word … it may describe the same action, the impact of flesh on flesh, but it implies an intention to wound rather than impact and is an expression of anger rather than of love. Spanking, if done properly, isn’t hitting and isn’t seen by the child as hitting either. Children simply don’t see any hypocrisy at all and although mine were both spanked on occasion, they never even attempted to spank each other. They knew they didn’t have the authority to do it.

Further, I feel it’s not hypocritical because my children have license to do exactly the same thing when they’re parents.

As for the difference between spanking and hitting, I find this comparison helpful (sorry I couldn't post the table with the lines):

The Act --> Spanking is One or two swats to the buttocks or hand while Hitting/Abuse is striking repeatedly (or kicking, punching, choking)
The Manner in which it's done --> Spanking is controlled; intentional; with forethought while Hitting/Abuse is uncontrolled; reacting to the moment
The Intent --> Spanking is to correct wrong behavior while Hitting/Abuse is to vent anger or frustration
The Attitude --> Spanking has love and concern while Hitting/Abuse has anger and malice
The Results --> Spanking produces behavioral correction while Hitting/Abuse produces emotional and/or physical injury
Sharlee, thanks for not having bowed out of the thread, and thanks for this excellent analysis.
DITTO!!


me
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Re: How to abuse a child - the Christian Way

Unread post by me »

I add my thanks to Sharlee for being so succinct. However...I think some of the less brilliant explanations sufficed, if someone wanted to make the effort to see the point.

I think people should think about these things rather than just doing what they had done to them or taking the easy way out.
Well there you go....something we agree on. =) I too think conscious choices should be made, rather than taking the easy way out....cuz it was never the easy way out for me.


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anon
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Re: How to abuse a child - the Christian Way

Unread post by anon »

cc la tarte wrote:
anon wrote:

Sharlee, thanks for not having bowed out of the thread, and thanks for this excellent analysis.
DITTO!!
I second that.


Excelsior!
me
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Re: How to abuse a child - the Christian Way

Unread post by me »

Third.


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Reel
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Re: How to abuse a child - the Christian Way

Unread post by Reel »

I don't consider spanking the easy way out at all. At least not for me. On the rare occasions that we do use it, it's because it is either more efficient or more effective for the child. RW was right in saying that a time-out would be effective because she dislikes it, but why would I go straight to the thing she hates the most to get a message across when something else works? She understands from a smack on the butt that she shouldn't repeat the behavior; a time-out will ruin an entire afternoon.

ON the other hand, if our friends were to spank their kid, he probably wouldn't stop crying for days, but he's quite happy to take a time out. That works for him and I don't think they should or are likely to spank him.

The question of hypocrisy has always been a non-sequitur for me as I don't consider them the same thing at all.

I consider it foolish to base such things on what your parents/friends do or what you read in a book. It should be based on the child and the situation.


It's easy to judge because it's so hard to understand.
minaeni
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Re: How to abuse a child - the Christian Way

Unread post by minaeni »

fourth and fifth:))


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minaeni
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Re: How to abuse a child - the Christian Way

Unread post by minaeni »

*sigh* are we dere yet?..


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me
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Re: How to abuse a child - the Christian Way

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:yinyang:


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